Author Topic: vLSO Alpha Release  (Read 57006 times)

sonofabeech

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2011, 12:25:56 am »
Hey Sludge

Don't want to start any false rumours around here as far as the time in groove is concerned ...the reason I said it had possibly been fixed was because of the photo above showing the vLSO glideslope page  shows his pass as being 12,7 seconds in the groove. I guess only Serge can answer that question.

Is there any way of getting the vLSO to work in a multiplayer setup? Im guessing if it can be done that someone will have to write another multiplayer mission? Or do we go back to LSO Sludge  with his dreaded log book ;D You guys think the vLSO is tough ....LSO Sludge will make grown men cry  ;D

Whenever you guys are ready for a session drop me a message ..it's been far too long since I last saw your ugly mugs :P

Sonofabeech is in the slot LOL
Simon"Sonofa"Beech
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Sludge

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2011, 04:06:10 am »
Beech...

No worries, I think Serge took our criticisms and is working with them. Thats all we can ask. I'm gonna do some more passes tonight and see how I stack-up in the pattern and try to get my FRAPS running to record it.

Quote
You guys think the vLSO is tough ....LSO Sludge will make grown men cry

Man, now I feel like the LSO version of the "wicked witch of the West". Haha. I think the good news is that once people get comfortable with the vLSO and can bring that to the multiplayer sessions, they should be just fine with my grading. Of course ALL BETS ARE OFF once you get NEUTRINO'd, but its all good if we can get some sessions started again and get people out there.

Later
Sludge


Paddles

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2011, 06:48:55 am »
Guys,
These pictures were taken not during actual approaches but in the OPT mode. I use this OPT (Object Placement Tool) when working on the vLSO project and missions. This powerful tool allows me to place and move the plane around the scene as I want it, so I don't need to fly the pattern every time I need to check something. I just move the plane into required position and see how the vLSO registers and evaluates its position... So what you see is not exactly what you think  :)

However I do fly my missions. But I still can't reproduce the groove time issue, I constantly get 18..26 sec. Will keep working on this issue...
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sonofabeech

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2011, 01:58:04 pm »
Sludge!! ...wicked "witch" of the west you cross dressing these days ? thats a scary thought ... I remember the multi sessions..

Sonofabeech : "Abeam ..hook down"
Sludge: "Do you want the friendly LSO or the real deal"
Sonofabeech " the real deal"
Sludge" Right then ...."
Sonofabeech" OH CRAP!! :o
Sludge .... WAVE OFF WAVE OFF ...  ;D 

Serge thanks for the feedback ..appreciate all the time you have put into this project!
Simon"Sonofa"Beech
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Paddles

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2011, 06:02:22 am »
Also, are you gonna have "launch/activations zones" for the other cats as well? So we can do launches from CATS 1/2 while doing sustained carrier patterns. Its my opinion that the boat was "stopping" cause the Hornets werent starting and using CAT 4. Hopefully, we can get this fixed, so we can CAT anywhere and the boat will keep going...

Sludge,
looks like the problem caused by this xml tag set to True:
<YieldToUser>True</YieldToUser>

Just open in an editor each mission's xml file, find and set the tag to False (easy to find, it's the only <YieldToUser> tag within the xml code) and re-fly the two missions again. There should be no more stopping.

Here's my new question.
Currently my missions are set for the F18, and ideal abeam position is 1.3 nm from the touchdown point and abeam area margin is 0.4 nm, so that when the plane is 1.7 nm or farther from the ship, it gets TWA; when the plane is 0.9 nm or closer, it gets TCA. But what if you fly the T45 or F14 or any other carrier capable plane? Will this 'hardcoded' into missions abeam position be suitable for them? NAVAIR 00-80T-105 specifies abeam numbers without referencing to any particular aircraft (see the attached picture). On the other hand I recall that abeam position for the T45 is 0.9-1.1 nm (don't have any Goshawk NATOPS in handy to check that). So, flying correct T45 pattern would result in wrong LSO reaction, right?  :)

What I want to do is to get rid of these areas and let the vLSO judge an approach according to aircraft type. This will a) give the program more flexibility and b) allow the user to fly ANY carrier mission with ANY carrier capable planes...
Here's the list of such planes - F/A-18A (Acceleration), F/A-18D (Captain Sim), T-45C and F-14D (both Dino's). Are there any other flyable planes? What are their VFR approach numbers?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 07:22:32 am by fsxnavypilot »
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SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2011, 07:20:59 am »
Hornet F/A-18A/B/C/D NATOPS Carrier Circuit Diagram attached. It states 1.25 to 1.5NM abeam. I'll post the Goshawk T-45C next which states 0.75 to 1 NM abeam. I'm guessing that the CV NATOPS carrier circuit diagram is a general one for jet aircraft. Individual NATOPS would be the aircraft guide IMHO. The low altitude 'dirty' turning performance difference between Goshawk & Hornet is significant. Having a very similar angle of bank in the base turn would be the guide I reckon. Hence different abeam distances for similar bank angle.
______________________________________

The CNATRA T-45C guide online has this FCLP Abeam position:

http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation2/P-1238/P-12380021.htm

"Abeam position a.Verify proper distance abeam (.9-1.1 nm laterally)"

However bear in mind that the runway is not moving with an angled deck (making for a wider turn - less angle of bank - to intercept angle deck centreline). Some info on FCLP here on this point: http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation2/P-1238/P-12380022.htm

Flying a carrier pattern is a matter of adjusting constantly as is the case with flying the ball, being as close to perfection as is humanly possible. :D  It seems today that flying part of the day FCLP T-45C circuit on instruments is OK, I guess good training for night FCLP also. "Scan from the 180 to the 90 is primarily an instrument scan."
_____________________

T-45C at carrier:
http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation2/P-1238/index.htm

http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation2/P-1238/P-12380055.htm

"COMMON ERROR: ...NOT holding BRC heading...

C. Approach turn 9.7.2.3.5
1. Abeam position. Lead should set proper distance abeam (.9 to 1.1 nm)
2. Turn abeam LSO platform 27-30 degrees AOB. At the round down establish 200-300 fpm descent
3. 90-degree position: 450 ft AGL
4. 45-degree position: 325-375 ft AGL
5. Cross wake at 300-350 ft AGL, 500 fpm descent
6. Do not look for ball early"
______________

8.13 CARRIER LANDING [T-45C NATOPS verbatim]
Enter the carrier landing pattern (Figure 8-2 [seen attached here]) with the hook down. Make a level break from a course parallel to the BRC, close aboard the starboard side of the ship. Below 200 KIAS lower the gear and flaps/slats. Descend to 600 feet when established downwind. Complete the landing checklist and cross-check AOA and airspeed prior to the 180 degree position.

With a 25 knot wind over the deck begin the 180 degree turn to the final approach when approximately abeam the LSO platform. When the meatball is expected to be acquired, transmit call sign, Goshawk, Ball or Clara and fuel state (nearest 100 pounds). Fly the aircraft at optimum angle of attack from the 180 degree position to touchdown.”

Pretty simple really.  ;D  I guess all this advice can be confusing for sure and here the T-45C advice from various sources is added to supplement the F/A-18 advice given already on this thread and in other threads.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 10:38:03 am by SpazSinbad »
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Paddles

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2011, 11:02:56 am »
Spaz,
Thanks for the info! I will use 1.25-1.5 NM for the F18 and 0.9-1.1 NM for the T45. I will also add 0.3-0.5 NM for 'too wide' and 'too close' areas.
I'm changing my program so that flying downwind through the abeam area (within these boundaries) with hook and gears down will tell the vLSO that the pilot starts a Case I/II approach.
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Letourn

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2011, 07:01:55 pm »
Hi Serge,

You asked if
"Here's the list of such planes - F/A-18A (Acceleration), F/A-18D (Captain Sim), T-45C and F-14D (both Dino's). Are there any other flyable planes? What are their VFR approach numbers?"

There is A-6, EA-6B, A-7 (Razbam), F/A-18E (VRS), F/A-18E-F (Team FSKBT), Rafale M (One by rollus another one by Thor), (Royale French Navy) Etendard

Also there is a lot of WWii aiplanes and carrier 60-70-80s nice one around.

For Carriers there is the Foch, Clemenceau and Ark Royal.

Dont get me wrong not asking you to do all of them i am just answering your question :)

Let



SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2011, 03:50:44 am »
fsxnp, if more NATOPS carrier circuit information is needed for your vLSO project for other aircraft as indicated by 'Letourn' then please say what is required. I have the Super Hornet (already posted on another thread somewhere I think but can be reposted) and the F-14D model NATOPS info.
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Paddles

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2011, 08:03:48 am »
Spaz,
I need additional info on these planes:
Rhino, Tomcat, Intruder/Prowler, Skyhawk and maybe Rafale and Etendard.
Are there any other flyable carrier modern era airplanes? S-3 Viking, E-2 Hawkeye for example?...

Letourn,
Thank you for your suggestions, however I don't plan to support S.Parouty's carriers (mainly because their OLS has at least twice lower precision than the FLOLS) or old time carriers and planes (most of them don't have OLS at all).


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Letourn

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2011, 02:31:53 pm »
There is a S-3 Viking (Iris FS9 upgrade to FSX with tanker option - Freeware) and E-2C Hawkeye (Abacus)

SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2011, 09:40:42 pm »
F-14D NATOPS relevant Carrier Circuit and FCLP info/advice in 2 PDFs & .GIF graphics.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 10:42:57 pm by SpazSinbad »
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Essex

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2011, 03:37:21 pm »
On the subject of carriers, I've managed to get ILS, IFLOLS, TCAN and LSO working on the Ark Royal IV (my favourite) and others.

Basically you need the gauges from the Royale French Navy Fouga_Zephyr_FSX_v2.0.zip (Etendard uses a VC switch for LSO).
The Ark Royal seems quite fussy. I changed it's frequency in the file Carrier.xml to 110.00 (Clemenceau_1995 to 112.00) although I first had it working on 112.5. What works for me is to set NAV2 to 110, switch on the TCAN gauge, wait for the range and bearing to show, then quickly switch NAV2 to 111.00 then NAV1 to 111.00 also. The ILS should immediately show up in the HUD. You guys may be able to work out a more elegant way of doing this.

I haven't got a definitive list of exactly which gauges are required, I suggest adding the sludge HUD to the Zephyr first, then install the Etendard which has later file versions (which overwrite the Zephyr's). You can then copy the gauges over to any aircraft.

This line is required in the VC section for the LSO to work;

gauge00=dsd_xml_sound3!dsd_xml_sound3,                              5,   0,   5,   5,.\gauges\dsd_sonsCM175.ini

I don't know how to add additional carriers to Carrier.xml, but there's a few in there. Also it looks possible to change the carriers geometry if need be. Incidentally IFLOLS seems to be limited to use 111.00 or 112.00, which is why I use these frequencies.

vLSO is looking good, ideally I'd like to be able to use it without needing to use a mission.

Cheers.

SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2011, 03:20:31 am »
Super Hornet F/A-18E/F NATOPS Carrier Approach and FCLP procedures, 1 combined PDF and 2 GIF graphics from NATOPS. Usually in all instances of USN aircraft NATOPS the carrier approach procedures refer in part to the FCLP/Land based procedures.
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SpazSinbad

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Re: vLSO Alpha Release
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2011, 12:34:15 am »
Best Quality Text Searchable A-4E/F/G Skyhawk NATOPS:

http://www.adf-history.com/2011files/A4G_NATOPS_Text_Searchable.pdf (138Mbs)

Attached are the two Land and Carrier Circuit NATOPS .GIF diagrams and a PDF with relevant information for both.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:37:29 am by SpazSinbad »
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