Author Topic: invisible elements  (Read 2039 times)

hilkiah

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invisible elements
« on: August 20, 2022, 07:03:50 pm »
Still coming to grips with GSX and MSFS2020.

I noticed twice now (one with the PMDG 737 and another time with the FBW A320) that the GSX elements were invisible.  For e.g. the GPU was invisible, even though there was a power cable from the A320 to it.  When I called for the stairs, I could hear the moving vehicle sound but there was no visual indication that something was moving.

SK10

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Re: invisible elements
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2022, 09:02:09 pm »
I'm seeing that too and very low LOD from vehicles and human characters in short distance. I using VR though, so I dont knowif thats a factor.

virtuali

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Re: invisible elements
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2022, 09:59:36 pm »
It is possible VR makes some difference but, here's briefly how LODs in GSX objects are made:

We used multiple LODs, from a minimum of 3-4, to the maximum allowed of 10, averaging 5-6 LODs per object. This will ensure the lowest fps impact and the lowest memory footprint. The MSFS SDK has a diagnostic tool, which tells us exactly when LOD must switch, according to what Asobo evaluated as be the maximum allowed, depending on the object visible size on screen. The tool will tell you exactly where to stop, showing a "green" value if you are correct, a "yellow" value if you are approaching the maximum allowed, and "red" if you are wrong, meaning your object is too complex for its size, so you must switch to a lower LOD.

This changed after SU5 and, back then, Asobo announced in the future, all products that won't conform to this, will have their objects removed automatically. They said these rules would have been entered in effect only after several months, lots of developer complained because there weren't used to make many LODS, this scared so many developers that I think as of today, the full rules never entered into play ( they possibly are on the Xbox, not sure ), and has been replaced with a "milder" version, that is removing anything if it's less than 0.5% of its original size. Nobody really cares of this.

But, we decided to stick to the rules entirely, because they are helpful for us, knowing when we are wrong, which sometimes is not so obvious. Since we need to display lots of different objects at time, and keep the fps impact as low as possible, we applied the rules to the max, so almost all our objects are always "in the green", meaning all our LODs are correct as Asobo requested. If the full rules would eventually enter in effect, not many products other than GSX ( and possibly our KCLT ) will still work...but that's not likely to happen, because of that, and because that announcement about LOD enforcing made many developers to enter in panic mode, since adding multiple LOD levels to everything, costs time and work and money.

The LOD levels in 3d objects ( NOT TERRAIN! ) is controlled by the Object LOD slider. We tuned the LODs with the slider at 100, which is used by default in "HIGH" settings. Ultra, by default, is 200, meaning all the object's LOD will be doubled, and Medium by default is 50, so all LOD will be halved.

That's to assure you how all LOD has been made to conform completely to Asobo recommendations about fps and memory allocation and (with a few exceptions for vehicles that always appear alone, like the Deicer ), they all pass the "green" text in the Dev Tool.

And, the slider you can use to tweak them is the OBJECT LOD, which is completely separate from the other LOD, that is the Terrain LOD.

VR is a completely different matters, because of the circular rendering, so it's possible we might even need a different set of objects (only their XML files! ) with LOD levels retuned for VR.

SK10

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Re: invisible elements
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2022, 10:21:54 pm »
 Okay understand, weird is how the ground stuff of Asobo is not affected by their own rules...

virtuali

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Re: invisible elements
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2022, 11:50:39 pm »
Okay understand, weird is how the ground stuff of Asobo is not affected by their own rules...

It's not weird at all, they don't always respect those rules either.

Doing multiple LODs is a thankless and boring job, MSFS has thousands of library objects, it would take ages to optimize all of them.

Case in point, the default Localizer ILS antenna object doesn't have any LOD, it's a monolithic object with far too many polygons when viewed from afar, and in the sim own diagnostic, is clearly labeled in red. I'm not 100% sure it still is, we noticed last year when we were doing KCLT and fear of LOD started to spread around, because many developer started to fear getting the axe. So, we did KCLT in full-panic mode, putting LODs everywhere, our custom ILS localizer has 9 LODs, for example, and so many other objects. Yes, this resulted in a very fps-friendly, so Asobo is right insisting on it, but it delayed the scenery release at least 3 months, which caused us a bit of financial troubles, because it started a chain of delays (KIAH was delayed because of that, and by GSX's release as well), and the funny thing is, you do all that work, increase the fps, and many users see LODs as a bad thing, even if it takes a lot of additional work to do them.