Bleed thru at PHOG?

[G.Bosak]

placed the 2 attached bgl files from the post above in the rigth folders

a) KSFO -PHOG => still bleeding

b) KSFO - PHOG (without the primary given FSDT_PHOG_ALT.BGL  from the installer in world scenery folder) => still bleeding, too.

I really don't understand this issue. I have no actice/installed scenery left in this sector beside FSDT PHNL and FSDT Hawaii 1+2.

My FSX has SP1 and SP2 installed, FS Global08 in "standard" mode , Active Sky Evolution, REXv2 and using PMDG Md-11 or 747 on my flights. Why this shouldn't be reproducable when doing a
whole flight from KSFO. This is a common config.


After my first landing with the above given replacing files i used a fsuipc autosave to make a quick test with the config of flight 2 from long final (appr. ~10 min before landing)

=> no surprising, no bleeding, as it is when flying local traffic pattern at any Hawaiian FSDT Airport.

It seems to trigger it always a long haule flight is needed.

I am worried this will happen in KLAX, too!

Umberto, maybe it is easier to share all your beta team configuration with us customers, to investigate any deviation.  

Personally, i don't think that you and your team wouldn't have experienced this, if you ever took the time for a real long term flight from continent. It happened to often at several of your airports, and i think it isn't uncommon to expect that every payway scenery works with the most common meshes FS Genesis / FS Global perfectly @ release, without trial & error.

Sorry for that irritation, but this approach isn't even professionally from my point of view!

[virtuali]

Please, stop referring to the PHNL fix!!

The latest file posted ALREADY includes exactly the same methods to fix PHNL, which are:

- a small AFCAD in the Scenery\World\Scenery

- both AFCADs set to the same height, which is also the same as the default one, correctly set to the millimeter, which is the native internal AFCAD format.

- a VTP flatten with a slightly lower altitude than the AFCADs, set to the closest lowest 1/128 of a meter, which is the internal format for VTP/LWM polygons.

By comparing to the PHNL fix, as if we weren't aware of the issues, you are probably confusing two different things:

1) the fix we made in a similar way to PHNL, which it's attached here

2) your settings. There's no way a fix can be settings-independent because, if you don't have enough mesh resolution, the flatten will not work correctly, because it doesn't have enough data to work with.

Just to be clear, I'm still unable to see ANY bleeding, not with the original released files, not with the 1st fix, and not with the 2nd one.

I've tried everything trying to see the bleed, starting a flight a PHOG, nothing. Starting a flight on another airport, like PHLI (which should be far enough away) then fast slewing to PHOG, nothing. Starting a flight at another airport and *manually* flying in realtime to PHOG, nothing as well.

So, it can only be setting dependent in some way. I'm using Mesh Complexity at 100, Mesh Resolution at 10m, Texture resolution at 60cm.

[9Y-POS]

Ok i gave these files a try but unfortunately i think it made it just a tad worse

I'm sorry, but it's simply not possible: the same files entirely fixed the issue for another user! There's something really wrong with your system or your settings.

Can you try to move your FSX.CFG file to a different location (like your Desktop) and let FSX create a new one from scratch ?

Also, try to reset your Video card Control Panel to default settings too.

I removed the FSX.cfg as you suggested but no improvement, what i've done is to re-install the scenery now that i have a new FSX. cfg and i did a circuit with the ultralite and landed, no issue but for some strange reason when i fly say phko to phog or any other destination in the region, the bleed occurs. I will now reset the video card and see if that helps.
my frames are also quite good, have never had an issue there.

[virtuali]

what i've done is to re-install the scenery now that i have a new FSX

Without forgetting to add the 2nd fix I've posted, I hope...

[virtuali]

Umberto, maybe it is easier to share all your beta team configuration with us customers, to investigate any deviation.  

That wouldn't have changed anything. If we can't reproduce it, the only thing we can do, is trying fixes blindly, which is exactly the same of what we are doing here, and of course asking about system configuration trying to understand if there's a pattern.

Right now, the only pattern I see, is the same users that used to have the problem at PHNL back then, are seeing it at PHOG so, it's seems to be more related to system settings.

i think it isn't uncommon to expect that every payware scenery works with the most common meshes FS Genesis / FS Global perfectly @ release, without trial & error.

Nowhere I've said the scenery is supposed to work only with default scenery. In fact, a user is saying he sees the bleeding even with a stock installation so, there's no "scenery works with default only" stance at all.

Of course I still HAVE to ASK about other addons otherwise, how you suggest we can eventually find if there's a pattern ? That's the only other option we have, failing to reproduce it first-hand.

[virtuali]

Another set of files to try, this time both should be put into the fsdreamteam\PHOG\scenery folder.

[Ethan744N763]

Well I flew from PHLI to PHOG and just to add time I made a quick stop in PHNL. All flown at real time in the TinMouse 737-200.

I flew with the posted small AFCAD in the scenery/world/scenery folder and after dowloading the other posted AFCAD I noticed the only change (I think) was the airport elevation (54.99 to 55.00). So I just opened up the AFCAD already installed and changed the airport elevation to 55.00. I did this because I didn't want to re-do all my gate assignments and other stuff I changed for my preference.

No bleeding! And jetways were present (I think they dissapeared last time because I was slowly running out of memory on approach).

I'm not going to be convinced until I do a flight from the mainland but for now it works fine for island hopping  

[G.Bosak]

Just to be clear, I'm still unable to see ANY bleeding, not with the original released files, not with the 1st fix, and not with the 2nd one.

I've tried everything trying to see the bleed, starting a flight a PHOG, nothing. Starting a flight on another airport, like PHLI (which should be far enough away) then fast slewing to PHOG, nothing. Starting a flight at another airport and *manually* flying in realtime to PHOG, nothing as well.

Umberto,

pls read carefully what customers write:

Ethan744N763
EDIT: Maybe it only happens with the sim isopen for a longer period of time? If I just takeoff, fly around the island then land again there is no problem. I will try the files above now.

i wrote:
I have to arrive from KSFO or e.g NTAA to trigger it (pls make this a fixed part on any beta-testing)

and once more:
It seems to trigger it, always a long haule flight is needed.

If you search for old feedback respective the PHNL issues in your forums, i wrote at that time, that i can only trigger the bleeding on longer flights, not on a jump e.g. between PHTO and PHNL!

I did flights since release of Hawaii2:

from KLAS to PHOG
from KSFO - PHOG
and from NTAA - PHOG

=> every time bleeding

Now you are writing again, you can't reproduce it, while hanging around at PHLI and PHOG.  

I can tell you why you don't experience it, you don't listen to your customers, who are spending their freetime to fix sceneries they have have already paid for.

This isn't a mesh slider problem, as i said i tested several setups and the complexity is always set to 100%.

[virtuali]

after dowloading the other posted AFCAD I noticed the only change (I think) was the airport elevation (54.99 to 55.00). So I just opened up the AFCAD already installed and changed the airport elevation to 55.00.

Be careful using feets in your editor (ADE ?), because the native altitude format in AFCAD it's not feets, but *millimeters*, stored as 32 bit long integers. MS chose this format in order to stay away from problems due to inherently inaccurate floating point libraries. For example, the default scenery at PHOG is set at 16.459 meters, so it's internally stored as 4 bytes with the value 16459.

We set it at 16.459 in this last set of files, just to be 100% identical to the default scenery but, in general, setting the AFCAD *higher* should *lower* the chance of bleeding because, what is covered by the terrain is the AFCAD runway so, the higher the AFCAD, the less chance the surrounding terrain would cover it.

Of course, there's also an additional flatten in the two small 000/CVX.BGLs, which is set lower than the AFCAD, this should further ensure that any terrain/mesh should stay clear of the runway but, I believe the flatten might not work if there's not enough mesh resolution to work with, which is why it should be set to high values.

It's POSSIBLE (note, I'm only guessing) that after a long flight, due to memory exhaustion, maybe there's an optimization in place that, in order to save memory, doesn't load all the elevation points that are in the mesh, so the flatten can't do its work properly. I noticed there's more delay loading the higher resolution meshes, if the frame rate is lower or the system is overloaded, and this might affect the work of flattens. In fact, it seems the same posted files for FS9, which is generally faster (I have about 120-130 fps at PHOG in FS9...), seems to have eliminated the problem, at least according to first reports.

[G.Bosak]

Another set of files to try, this time both should be put into the fsdreamteam\PHOG\scenery folder.

and what about the files which we have tested before?

a) making folder status after installer

b) or after workaround 1 and 2

[virtuali]

I can tell you why you don't experience it, you don't listen to your customers, who are spending their freetime to fix sceneries they have have already paid for.

That you are wrong saying I "don't listen" to customer, can easily been proven by my last message, which was written BEFORE this latest one of yours, were I can try to explain why the problem can be seen on long flights only.

However, it's not clear if the problem is TIME related (long flight = lots of time) or DISTANCE related (long flight=coming from far away)

[virtuali]

and what about the files which we have tested before?

They have to stay, the 2nd version of course.

If these last two files were supposed to be an alternative fix that should have been used in place of the other one, I would have clearly said to remove the previous fix, reinstall the scenery and apply these files only.

[G.Bosak]

However, it's not clear if the problem is TIME related (long flight = lots of time) or DISTANCE related (long flight=coming from far away)

In the "KSFO bleeding investigation" the distance KLAS - KSFO was enough to trigger it. If it helps.

Flights from PHTO to PHNL were to short to trigger it at that days.

[G.Bosak]

and what about the files which we have tested before?

They have to stay, the 2nd version of course.

If these last two files were supposed to be an alternative fix that should have been used in place of the other one, I would have clearly said to remove the previous fix, reinstall the scenery and apply these files only.

roger that (i'll better ask before having an 4:30h flight)

[Ethan744N763]

Interesting heads-up about ADE - I'm going to overwrite my AFCAD with the new one then and add the new flatten files above.

Going to start an HAL flight from PDX to OGG to see if the new files work. I'm also going to set my mesh to 100% just to be safe. Most of its ocean anyway