Author Topic: Your software Is An Absolute Joke  (Read 1332 times)

rhys1573

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Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« on: December 07, 2023, 07:17:00 pm »
To be honest, I've never come across a piece of software that causes as many issues as GSX (Couatl). Every time I face problems with my simulator, Couatl appears to be involved in the crash somehow. The more I update GSX, the more unstable it becomes, and it's disheartening to see other users experiencing the same set of issues.

I diligently keep GSX up to date, ensuring that I maintain current profiles to minimize potential problems. Recently, while flying at FL410, I encountered internet issues and decided to quickly restart my router to resolve the problem. As expected, MSFS went into offline mode. After waiting around two minutes for the router to restart, the sim reconnected with a stutter, GSX's menu popped up, and the sim crashed to the desktop.  Let me just reiterate that this is not the first time this has happened with Couatl.exe and it rarely even makes it to my destination without somehow crashing mid-flight and leaving me with no services at the destination..

Upon checking the Windows Event Viewer, the consistent culprit for the crash is couatl.exe. I even revisited the 2.8.5 update on November 16, 2023, where the ability to disable GSX above 10,000ft was mentioned by changing the 'disable_at_cruise' setting in the Couatladdons.INI file. Surprisingly, that setting is nowhere to be found in the INI file. It's frustrating when even the developer's suggestions are incorrect.

I genuinely don't want to stop using GSX because when it works, it's a fantastic tool. However, the unnecessary and frustrating issues arising after recent updates are pushing users like me to the brink. Experiencing simulator crashes 3.5 hours into a 7-hour flight is incredibly disheartening.

I'm sure the developer might come up with excuses in response, but there are only so many times the Event Viewer can be wrong, and blame can be shifted to other programs!

Thanks for listening to my rant. Goodnight  :-X

Just Caliber

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2023, 01:46:17 am »
Lol first time using GSX?

As a flight sim veteran, problems with GSX are just the norm and you'll just have to get used to it. I've been using GSX since it's inception during the FSX days and I experience problems with it on a near daily basis, from the Couatl engine crashing, to it just straight up not loading at all. It's built on a pretty old piece of software now. FSDT I believe developed it for their own addons back in the day. Several other devs used it as well, but since it is so unstable and unreliable, they stopped using it.

Couatl does an insane amount of work in the background which is why we have GSX as it is today. I am by no means defending Couatl, I despise it as much as the next person, but it's like trying to work with someone who has been on the job site for 50 years and stuck in their old ways. Ya just gotta put up with it.

pete_auau

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2023, 05:44:43 am »
To be honest, I've never come across a piece of software that causes as many issues as GSX (Couatl). Every time I face problems with my simulator, Couatl appears to be involved in the crash somehow. The more I update GSX, the more unstable it becomes, and it's disheartening to see other users experiencing the same set of issues.

I diligently keep GSX up to date, ensuring that I maintain current profiles to minimize potential problems. Recently, while flying at FL410, I encountered internet issues and decided to quickly restart my router to resolve the problem. As expected, MSFS went into offline mode. After waiting around two minutes for the router to restart, the sim reconnected with a stutter, GSX's menu popped up, and the sim crashed to the desktop.  Let me just reiterate that this is not the first time this has happened with Couatl.exe and it rarely even makes it to my destination without somehow crashing mid-flight and leaving me with no services at the destination..

Upon checking the Windows Event Viewer, the consistent culprit for the crash is couatl.exe. I even revisited the 2.8.5 update on November 16, 2023, where the ability to disable GSX above 10,000ft was mentioned by changing the 'disable_at_cruise' setting in the Couatladdons.INI file. Surprisingly, that setting is nowhere to be found in the INI file. It's frustrating when even the developer's suggestions are incorrect.

I genuinely don't want to stop using GSX because when it works, it's a fantastic tool. However, the unnecessary and frustrating issues arising after recent updates are pushing users like me to the brink. Experiencing simulator crashes 3.5 hours into a 7-hour flight is incredibly disheartening.

I'm sure the developer might come up with excuses in response, but there are only so many times the Event Viewer can be wrong, and blame can be shifted to other programs!

Thanks for listening to my rant. Goodnight  :-X



https://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,26876.msg175991.html#msg175991

BrianT58

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2023, 02:04:45 pm »
Lol first time using GSX?

As a flight sim veteran, problems with GSX are just the norm and you'll just have to get used to it. I've been using GSX since it's inception during the FSX days and I experience problems with it on a near daily basis, from the Couatl engine crashing, to it just straight up not loading at all. It's built on a pretty old piece of software now. FSDT I believe developed it for their own addons back in the day. Several other devs used it as well, but since it is so unstable and unreliable, they stopped using it.

Couatl does an insane amount of work in the background which is why we have GSX as it is today. I am by no means defending Couatl, I despise it as much as the next person, but it's like trying to work with someone who has been on the job site for 50 years and stuck in their old ways. Ya just gotta put up with it.
To be honest, I've never come across a piece of software that causes as many issues as GSX (Couatl). Every time I face problems with my simulator, Couatl appears to be involved in the crash somehow. The more I update GSX, the more unstable it becomes, and it's disheartening to see other users experiencing the same set of issues.

I diligently keep GSX up to date, ensuring that I maintain current profiles to minimize potential problems. Recently, while flying at FL410, I encountered internet issues and decided to quickly restart my router to resolve the problem. As expected, MSFS went into offline mode. After waiting around two minutes for the router to restart, the sim reconnected with a stutter, GSX's menu popped up, and the sim crashed to the desktop.  Let me just reiterate that this is not the first time this has happened with Couatl.exe and it rarely even makes it to my destination without somehow crashing mid-flight and leaving me with no services at the destination..

Upon checking the Windows Event Viewer, the consistent culprit for the crash is couatl.exe. I even revisited the 2.8.5 update on November 16, 2023, where the ability to disable GSX above 10,000ft was mentioned by changing the 'disable_at_cruise' setting in the Couatladdons.INI file. Surprisingly, that setting is nowhere to be found in the INI file. It's frustrating when even the developer's suggestions are incorrect.

I genuinely don't want to stop using GSX because when it works, it's a fantastic tool. However, the unnecessary and frustrating issues arising after recent updates are pushing users like me to the brink. Experiencing simulator crashes 3.5 hours into a 7-hour flight is incredibly disheartening.

I'm sure the developer might come up with excuses in response, but there are only so many times the Event Viewer can be wrong, and blame can be shifted to other programs!

Thanks for listening to my rant. Goodnight  :-X
Interesting posts....As a "flight sim veteran" whatever that really is I've been using GSX since it's inseption in both FSX and now MSFS. I fly daily in MSFS and use GSX Pro daily and have issues with less than once a month, and even then the issues are minor and I can't prove it's GSX. Never had a CTD that was the cause of GSX/Pro so you may wnat to look a  bit more closely at your own setups and ask genuine support questions rather than jusmp on a bandwagon that has long since proved to be rubbish!
Regards
Brian

rhys1573

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2023, 11:52:14 am »
Lol first time using GSX?

As a flight sim veteran, problems with GSX are just the norm and you'll just have to get used to it. I've been using GSX since it's inception during the FSX days and I experience problems with it on a near daily basis, from the Couatl engine crashing, to it just straight up not loading at all. It's built on a pretty old piece of software now. FSDT I believe developed it for their own addons back in the day. Several other devs used it as well, but since it is so unstable and unreliable, they stopped using it.

Couatl does an insane amount of work in the background which is why we have GSX as it is today. I am by no means defending Couatl, I despise it as much as the next person, but it's like trying to work with someone who has been on the job site for 50 years and stuck in their old ways. Ya just gotta put up with it.
To be honest, I've never come across a piece of software that causes as many issues as GSX (Couatl). Every time I face problems with my simulator, Couatl appears to be involved in the crash somehow. The more I update GSX, the more unstable it becomes, and it's disheartening to see other users experiencing the same set of issues.

I diligently keep GSX up to date, ensuring that I maintain current profiles to minimize potential problems. Recently, while flying at FL410, I encountered internet issues and decided to quickly restart my router to resolve the problem. As expected, MSFS went into offline mode. After waiting around two minutes for the router to restart, the sim reconnected with a stutter, GSX's menu popped up, and the sim crashed to the desktop.  Let me just reiterate that this is not the first time this has happened with Couatl.exe and it rarely even makes it to my destination without somehow crashing mid-flight and leaving me with no services at the destination..

Upon checking the Windows Event Viewer, the consistent culprit for the crash is couatl.exe. I even revisited the 2.8.5 update on November 16, 2023, where the ability to disable GSX above 10,000ft was mentioned by changing the 'disable_at_cruise' setting in the Couatladdons.INI file. Surprisingly, that setting is nowhere to be found in the INI file. It's frustrating when even the developer's suggestions are incorrect.

I genuinely don't want to stop using GSX because when it works, it's a fantastic tool. However, the unnecessary and frustrating issues arising after recent updates are pushing users like me to the brink. Experiencing simulator crashes 3.5 hours into a 7-hour flight is incredibly disheartening.

I'm sure the developer might come up with excuses in response, but there are only so many times the Event Viewer can be wrong, and blame can be shifted to other programs!

Thanks for listening to my rant. Goodnight  :-X
Interesting posts....As a "flight sim veteran" whatever that really is I've been using GSX since it's inseption in both FSX and now MSFS. I fly daily in MSFS and use GSX Pro daily and have issues with less than once a month, and even then the issues are minor and I can't prove it's GSX. Never had a CTD that was the cause of GSX/Pro so you may wnat to look a  bit more closely at your own setups and ask genuine support questions rather than jusmp on a bandwagon that has long since proved to be rubbish!

When it comes to a software that you pay money for, customers expect a somewhat trouble free experience. GSX has been the lead cause of many issues with fight sims for years, even spanning back to the FSX and P3D days (apparently that classes you as a veteran nowadays) I'll go ahead and refer to how VirtualI was updating his software just a few weeks ago. I heavily rely on the release notes page and FSDT Launcher to keep GSX up to date, which I am sure everyone else does as well. The developer released an update on the FSDT Launcher for GSX which myself and a friend both updated to the latest version. Upon trying to enter the sim, we both found major issues loading up and when attempting to use GSX, we both ended up CTD as the developer has released half of a broken update to the launcher. The excuse...."Do not update the software until you see a change to the release notes section on the website". Who does that? It just seems that there is always something wrong with GSX, whether it would be with updating it, running it or using the services, I just seems 'janky'. I'm not jumping on ANY bandwagon, I am purely going off my own opinion and issue diagnosis when my sim CTD for no reason at 41000ft. So, I'll ask you, I'd love to see the proof that rids GSX of any blame when encountering issues with MSFS; even when couatl.exe is named in the event viewer?

HeicoH

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2023, 12:12:03 pm »
@rhys1573: I suspect that Umberto will answer you that "by definition" GSX cannot crash MSFS. However, that is not the truth and I have proof of it. In certain situations, GSX writes into the RAM that is already used by MSFS, causing the simulator to crash. This is reproducible. A software specialist who was previously unfamiliar with GSX found this out for me.
My GSX test scenario (unless otherwise stated):
Sandbox environment
GSX v 2.9.1 (as of 20 Jan 2023)
Fenix A320, PMDG 737-800, ATR-72
EDDL (JustSim), EDDK (Aerosoft), both not Marketplace
GSX jetways disabled
no AI traffic
no antivirus or firewall software running
all apps started in admin mode

zebraleet

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2023, 11:49:31 pm »
Umberto has been saying for a long time that it's impossible for GSX to crash the game, and yet recently they added a fix for a crash.

I also have nothing but trouble with this addon. Just recently the menu would only flash up and instantly close until I force closed Couatl and restarted it.

It also crashes half the time when calling services and all the vehicles disappear... I know I know "max objects" or whatever, but it should handle this a lot better.

I would just like more stability

pete_auau

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2023, 07:25:30 am »
Umberto has been saying for a long time that it's impossible for GSX to crash the game, and yet recently they added a fix for a crash.

I also have nothing but trouble with this addon. Just recently the menu would only flash up and instantly close until I force closed Couatl and restarted it.

It also crashes half the time when calling services and all the vehicles disappear... I know I know "max objects" or whatever, but it should handle this a lot better.

I would just like more stability

max objects  is  a msfs  issue nothing that  gsx  or  other  addons  can  fix

virtuali

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2023, 04:01:34 pm »
@rhys1573: I suspect that Umberto will answer you that "by definition" GSX cannot crash MSFS. However, that is not the truth and I have proof of it. In certain situations, GSX writes into the RAM that is already used by MSFS, causing the simulator to crash. This is reproducible. A software specialist who was previously unfamiliar with GSX found this out for me

No, you dont' have "proof" and whatever software "specialist" told you that was wrong, and likely made a very superficial analysis of the event in the Event viewer.

GSX (the Coualt engine) will never, ever, write into the "RAM already used by MSFS", doing this requires very specific programming that SOME addons use, but we surely don't. It can't be done "accidentally", it requires using specific hooking methods that you need to code explicitly, and I assure you we don't do ANYTHING remotely similar. If any normal .EXE hasn't explicitly coded with these methods, it's IMPOSSIBLE for it to get access to the RAM used by another process.

The Couatl engine in MSFS is a PURE 100% standard Simconnect client, and the ONLY interaction it has with the simulator is exclusively through the official Simconnect API. I'll repeat it again, the ONLY interaction it has with the simulator is exclusively through the official Simconnect API.

This means, if the Simconnect API itself has issues/bugs that could crash the sim, the sim CAN freeze or crash, even if the app making the call is using it correctly. And guess what, this HAPPENED and has been officially confirmed by MS in the SU13 release notes:

https://www.flightsimulator.com/release-notes-sim-update-13-1-34-16-0-available-now/

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Requesting some data using the NavData API shouldn’t freeze the sim anymore

GSX clearly needs to call the Navdata API in order to work, otherwise it won't work on Marketplace airports and won't be able to get Jetways data, and these release notes proves that, at least until SU13, crashes some users might have been misled to assume they were "caused by GSX" (because they might have disappeared by uninstalling it), where NOT "caused by GSX", which simply made a proper API call to it, but were bugs in the Simconnect API itself, which only MS/Asobo could possibly fix.

We can't possibly know if ALL those issues have been fixed. They might be others that hasn't been discovered yet, and it's precisely why, since the Navdata API is recent and hasn't gone through years of testing like the rest of the Simconnect API (and very few add-ons use it), we took some measures to at least reduce the calls to it when it's not required, in a recent update, because we suspect the Navdata API is still not 100% stable, and it might be affected by the data itself, like using 3rd party navdata databases (or not).

Clearly, that fix is NOT an "admission" that yes, GSX could crash the sim, as this zebraleet seem to have indicated:

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Umberto has been saying for a long time that it's impossible for GSX to crash the game, and yet recently they added a fix for a crash.

That's clearly confusing the cause with the effect. The cause (fully acknowledged by MS/Asobo) was the Simconnect API itself, and they are the only ones that can really "fix it", our fix it's just a workaround, but it's not as if we can just stop using the API: while it is technically possible to go back to the Legacy airport cache method, where GSX read the airport .BGLs directly, it's not a good solution, because other than the obvious problem of not being able to read encrypted Marketplace airports, we won't get all the missing Jetway data that has been added to the Navdata API so, the ONLY mitigating measures we can reasonably take from our side, is not calling the Navdata while in flight, at least during cruise.

Quote
I know I know "max objects" or whatever, but it should handle this a lot better.

Exactly: you don't know, that's the key sentence. "It should handle this a lot better" indicates exactly you don't know what is really happening.

It's not as if we get a warning in advance from Simconnect about the max Simobject limit being close to being reached, or we get something like a Simobject count, so we might do something like issue a warning and tell the user to lower his settings.

When the Simobject limit is reached, all the following happens, progressively, depending by how much the limit has been surpassed:

- First, new objects just won't be created. This results in calling GSX and not seeing something, like a missing wagon or truck, so you will be MISLED thinking it's a "GSX bug", because you called GSX and some objects didn't work.

- After a while, the simulator will start accepting commands that don't create objects and will discard even regular commands. For example, those that are required to create the GSX menu, which use Simconnect intra-process communications. When this happens, you will be MISLEAD thinking it's "GSX bug", because it can't create its menu. It can't create its menu because the simulator is not listening to it anymore, because it's struggling to deal with the max Simobject limit.

- Another side effect of having reached the max simobjects limit is jetways will stop working because, since even those require calling the Simconnect Navdata API, if the calls get ignored by the simulator, GSX won't even know there's a jetway there.

- In some cases, whole airports will disappear. This is because the simulator memory-saving strategy is to remove first the objects that don't have any LODs, then the ones that have few LODs. Since airport buildings rarely have LODs, their main buildings will get axed before other things, because the sim is trying every possible way to reclaim memory.

- If the situation gets worse, and the number of simobjects doesn't go down as expected, the frame rate starts to collapse

- After a while, the simulator will eventually CTD.



virtuali

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Re: Your software Is An Absolute Joke
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2023, 04:35:32 pm »
Upon checking the Windows Event Viewer, the consistent culprit for the crash is couatl.exe.

The typical mistake of assuming that, because "something" is in the Event Viewer, it's the "culprit".

But let's assume for a while this is correct, and whoever is listed in the Event Viewer is the "culprit", don't you ALSO have "Flightsimulator.exe" listed there? I'm sure you have it so, by your reasoning, the "culprit" is Flightsimulator ITSELF!

And that's exactly what happened in your case: because of the disconnection from the internet, which caused the sim to do a complex switch in/out from online photoreal textures to synthetic textures and back again when the connection resumed, this was the REAL cause of the crash and, it MADE the Couatl engine crash as well.

Since Couatl is not a .NET application which relies on Windows to handle memory, but it's a native Win64 app that is supposed to clean up its own memory explicitly, it must wait for a "QUIT" command sent through Simconnect, which will signal to it it's time to clean up used memory and then exit.

But if the simulator has crashed abruptly for any reason, it couldn't send that command, so Couatl wouldn't have a chance to exit cleanly, so you will see a Couatl Event in the Event viewer, and you will be misled assuming Couatl is the "cause" of the crash, when it was the opposite way around: the cause was MSFS itself, and it made Couatl crash.


Quote
I even revisited the 2.8.5 update on November 16, 2023, where the ability to disable GSX above 10,000ft was mentioned by changing the 'disable_at_cruise' setting in the Couatladdons.INI file. Surprisingly, that setting is nowhere to be found in the INI file. It's frustrating when even the developer's suggestions are incorrect

Nothing is "incorrect" here. You simply failed to read the 2.8.5 release notes accurately enough, so I'll post them again here:

Quote
To enable it, add disable_in_cruise=1 in the [GSX] section of the file.

So yes, it was entirey normal that, in 2.8.5, the setting wasn't there: that's what add meant: you had to add it yourself! Of course, having to add it manually lasted just for 4 days because, with 2.8.7, released Nov. 20th, there's a proper setting in the GSX Settings page, so you won't have to deal with editing the .INI file manually:

Quote
GSX (all versions) NEW: Disable GSX in Cruise option - Now can be set from the Settings page, with no need to edit the couatladdons.ini file.

Quote
I genuinely don't want to stop using GSX because when it works, it's a fantastic tool. However, the unnecessary and frustrating issues arising after recent updates are pushing users like me to the brink. Experiencing simulator crashes 3.5 hours into a 7-hour flight is incredibly disheartening.

I'm sure the developer might come up with excuses in response, but there are only so many times the Event Viewer can be wrong, and blame can be shifted to other programs!

I fully agree that a crash into a long flight is very frustrating, but it's clear in your case it was caused by the sudden issue with internect connecting dropping, triggering a very complex complete reload of all simulator textures (from satellite to synthetic and back again), which is very prone to issues, not unlikely when in earlier release the sim used to crash by simply connecting/reconnecting an USB device, which is in theory something way less critic than completely switching over the loaded scenery twice.

What you shouldn't do, instead, is dismiss my explanations as "excuses", when I always provide hard facts and it should be clear we are always doing everything possible to minimize the risk of crashes.

For example, your report that as soon the sim reconnected, the Couatl menu popped up. This is clearly not something we do but, it seems that, the reconnection must have triggered the same behavior as when you return to the Main Menu, which triggers a "Flight Loaded" event, which we intercept to Restart Couatl automatically, since when you return to the Main menu, it's likely to change airplane, so we restart automatically to be sure we reload the airplane configuration.

So, the GSX menu popping out automatically, was because this is what MSFS automatically does: when a flight is restarted, it will automatically re-open the Toolbar windows which were kept open before the flight reloaded. This because, you kept the Couatl menu ACTIVE after take-off, which is something we suggest not doing it, see this from the GSX manual where the Menu is discussed:

Quote
This is now your normal workflow should be:

• Open the GSX menu from the Toolbar icon when first starting Ground services.

• Don’t close it from the Toolbar while Ground services are performed, always use the Hot-key or the X icon to close the menu.

• Close the menu using the Toolbar icon when you are done with Ground services, usually before take-off.

There IS a reason for this suggestion, and it's because if you follow it, GSX won't do anything during the flight other than checking your position/altitude, which is 100% safe (lots of add-ons do that). But if you keep it ACTIVE (icon white), when the GSX menu opens, regardless of if YOU opened or the sim re-opened it automatically before the flight restarted, GSX would immediately make a call to the Navdata API to check all the nearby airports, in case you wanted to open the GSX menu to pre-select a gate in flight.

So, it's possible that, because of your internet disconnect/reconnect, the sim behaved as if the flight reloaded, so it re-opened the GSX menu automatically (because it wasn't closed after take-off), and this forced GSX to make a call to the Navdata API and, if the Navdata wasn't fully available, because the simulator was still completing its reconnection, it might have caused a crash, one that might have not happened if there wasn't the disconnection/reconnection event.

- BEFORE 2.8.5, the only way to prevent GSX from making calls to the Navdata in flight was to CLOSE the menu after take-off. That's why we suggested it in the manual.

- AFTER 2.8.5, if you enable the "Disable in Cruise" option, which after 2.8.7 doesn't even require editing the .INI file anymore, you might even forget to close the GSX menu after take-off because, with that option used, if you press the GSX hotkey, you'll get a message that you can't use GSX in cruise, and of course, NO call to Navdata to get a list of nearby airports will be made.