Nose high GSX pushback by others on VATSIM/vPilot

[Captain Kevin]

Kind of wish that information was made clear from the start since that part wasn't clear in the initial post. The only thing I can think of is that there are towbarless tugs that GSX uses for pushback that lifts the nose wheel off the ground. Even then, it shouldn't be that dramatic. Next time that happens and you ask them, ask them if they have the towbarless tug or not. The tugs with the towbar don't lift the nose.

[Dave5150]

Ahh good idea. Could very well be the specific tug. And who knows, the fix could be on the VATSIM clients side to "learn" how GSX does its thing. But narrowing it down will definitely be helpful.

[Captain Kevin]

Just a quick clip here, but you can see the tug dropping the nose after pushback.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1875930023?t=16m54s

[Moridin]

Kind of wish that information was made clear from the start since that part wasn't clear in the initial post. The only thing I can think of is that there are towbarless tugs that GSX uses for pushback that lifts the nose wheel off the ground. Even then, it shouldn't be that dramatic. Next time that happens and you ask them, ask them if they have the towbarless tug or not. The tugs with the towbar don't lift the nose.

This will happen with every tug but the effect will vary depending on tug and/or aircraft.

- A320s will do a stoppie on the nose wheel and sometimes just float in the air
- 737s will do a wheelie on the rear wheels
- A310 will stand on its nose

This has been happening on VATSIM when connected via vPilot (MSFS + P3D) and xPilot (XP11/12). Only people pushing back with GSX do these aerobatics. All other pushback apps keep the aircraft flat, despite them also lifting the nosewheel.

GSX Pro for MSFS is basically a meme on VATSIM because of this.

Please find a solution, thanks.

[Captain Kevin]

Please find a solution, thanks.

Unfortunately, I'm just a customer, not a developer. I can't do anything to solve the issue.

[Moridin]

Please find a solution, thanks.

Unfortunately, I'm just a customer, not a developer. I can't do anything to solve the issue.

I was hoping the message would be picked up by Mr. Umberto and a quick solution would be deployed promptly, for the sanity of all people on VATSIM.

[Captain Kevin]

I was hoping the message would be picked up by Mr. Umberto and a quick solution would be deployed promptly, for the sanity of all people on VATSIM.

WEL, I mean, you did quote me, which led me to believe you were responding to me.

[virtuali]

I feel that somehow when GSX loads the nose wheel onto the tug, the height of the nosewheel is being translated as feet and not inches. It's no huge deal, but when you have these photo realistic airports and liveries, seeing these silly pushbacks kind of throws cold water on the immersion factor. So whatever the cause, it would be awesome if it was fixed.

If you read my previous posts here, but also here:

https://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,30182.msg194858.html#msg194858

You would have noticed this couldn't possibly caused by GSX because it doesn't happen with standard MSFS Multiplayer, clearly indicating GSX is setting correct data.

Maybe it's not entirely clear how this works but, when setting variables on airplanes, Multiplayer or not is not even a thing to consider: we JUST set the variables required to the user airplane, and that's it, we don't need to know if there's a Multiplayer session running, it's all handled by the simulator internally so, if our values were "wrong", they would be wrong in all situations:

- When there's no multiplayer at all

- When the standard Multiplayer is used.

In BOTH these cases, the airplane pushed by GSX is clearly in the correct state. The ONLY case where the pitch is wrong, is when there's vPilot in between, and I already offered some guess WHY this happens, something changed in how Simconnect handles the pitch and, since standard Multiplayer doesn't use Simconnect to receive data, only vPilot does, something along the translation might not take into account this fact.

For some reason, it only happens with GSX, because the difference comparing to other pushback method, is that GSX freezes the airplane, so maybe vPilot would need to account for that.

[Rick Maclure]

I often see this attitude and i believe this is happening when the other aircraft is using GSX for pushback. When someone i know uses GSX for pushback there's nose high attitude. I hope this can get fixed. Definitely immersion breaking especially in VR.

Sadly, I am seeing more and more of this online (VATSIM). Whilst I am certain GSX Pro increases immersion for the user, it utterly destroys it for everyone else who has the misfortune of witnessing an Airbus attempting to bury itself in the ground.

I've read some intelligent commentary on the issue and it appears that a solution, if one exists, may only be achieved through collaboration with the developers of SimConnect and/or vPilot. So has anyone from FSDT approached the authors of those network components?

The add-on looks rich in functionality but as someone who only flies online, I will not buy GSX Pro until a solution is found. I do not want to be party to the ugliness of an online GSX Pro pushback. I am sure there are others of the same opinion.

Perhaps there is no solution. But, for the benefit of the online community would it not be the right and proper thing to collaborate and seek an answer?

Respectfully

[derpyemma]

I highly doubt the fault is completely with vpilot as these issues only started on vatsim with the release of GSX for MSFS.
Also worthy to note, on pushback without lift it also happens (the old 737 pusback with the towbar).
And not to forget toolbar pushback also lifts the nose and this issue was not present with that addon.

it seems a bit to easy to just blame it on vpilot when all other pushback addons dont show the same behaviour so i hope this bug can be looked at from the GSX side.

[virtuali]

Also worthy to note, on pushback without lift it also happens (the old 737 pusback with the towbar).

Which seems to indicate what is confusing vPilot it's either the fact the airplane is frozen (and only partially when a Towbar is used) or it's moved by Lat/Lon not under its own flight model, rather than the raise itself.

And not to forget toolbar pushback also lifts the nose and this issue was not present with that addon.

That's not really relevant. If that add-on doesn't freeze or moves the airplane in the same way as GSX does, it might not confuse vPilot, misleading you the problem lies in GSX, when it's not.

it seems a bit to easy to just blame it on vpilot when all other pushback addons dont show the same behaviour so i hope this bug can be looked at from the GSX side.

And again, if you are still saying it can be looked at "from GSX side", it means you either haven't read my previous explanation, or you decided to ignore it. We can't do anything "from our side" because:

- We are not doing anything other than setting some variables and move the airplane which works just fine on the user system

- We don't have any idea or means to check if this data is local or it's being transmitted over a network.

- The problem doesn't exist with Standard multiplayer. It only happens with vPilot. If the problem WAS on "GSX's side" it should have happened with standard Multiplayer as well.

I'll repeat it again: there's nothing in the sim that tells us the data we set on the airplane is being transmitted or not on the network.

[Rick Maclure]

We can't do anything "from our side" because...

I understand your logic, but you can do something. You could initiate a conversation with the vPilot dev(s)? Is it beyond the wit of man to jointly investigate the matter?

GSX Pro continues to destroy immersion in the VATSIM environment.

Respectfully

[Rhett]

Hi Virtuali,

Thank you for an outstanding product (GSX) that has brought much joy and increased the immersion factor for many thousands of flight simmers over the years.

As GSX Pro is one of the most successful addon products that the majority of flight simmers purchase and use, please could you try to resolve this immersion killing issue with the developer of vPilot. I have tried to find the "forum" for vPilot and there does not appear to be one or perhaps I have not looked in all the possible places. The developer is Ross Alan Carlson as indicated on the vPilot home page.

VATSIM is continually growing in popularity and seeing the unrealistic (ridiculous) behaviour of aircraft during pushback continue for so long in vPilot is truly beyond belief.

As you are a professional developer in every sense of the word with world class products, your customers would really appreciate your assistance on this issue. I understand that GSX is not the problem as you have explained above and that vPilot and/or simconnect is. I am sure that if Mr Carlson was informed of exactly what GSX is doing to the aircraft in MSFS during pushback, he would be in a fairly good position to try to solve the issue.

Many thanks in advance.

[virtuali]

I am sure that if Mr Carlson was informed of exactly what GSX is doing to the aircraft in MSFS during pushback, he would be in a fairly good position to try to solve the issue.

Of course he has.

[Rick Maclure]

Hi Virtuali,

I was intrigued by the following:

I am sure that if Mr Carlson was informed of exactly what GSX is doing to the aircraft in MSFS during pushback, he would be in a fairly good position to try to solve the issue.

Of course he has.

From the above, it appears you have been in contact with Mr Carlson. I would be interested to know how extensive or fruitful your correspondence with Mr Carlson has been.  Did you propose any form of 'interface' testing?


Earlier, you yourself hinted that GSX could be responsible for the appalling pushback animations we see on Vatsim:

For some reason, it only happens with GSX, because the difference comparing to other pushback method, is that GSX freezes the airplane, so maybe vPilot would need to account for that.

[My emphasis on your quote] Your use of the word 'maybe' concerns me in that it suggests you have not undertaken any testing whatsoever with vPilot.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Further, can you explain what 'freezing' the airplane means? To me this is critical to understand since any other of method I have tested (Toolbar Pushback, PMDG and FBW inbuilt push back, and even simply slewing) does not result in the gymnastics we see from online users of GSX Pro. What, precisely, is 'frozen' during the pushback?


I appreciate that many of your clients will fly offline and therefore cannot adversely affect the simming experience of others. However, several, through no fault of their own, do ruin the immersion of other VATSIM users. Consequently, I think this is a growing issue which will not go away.

I do not represent VATSIM other than being a user, but it should be noted that a GSX Pro pushback is establishing itself as something of a meme in the community. Which is a shame. GSX Pro appears to have its benefits but, and from a personal perspective, since most flights I undertake are online, I will not be party to wrecking someone else's immersion by using it.


Umberto, in closing,  I refuse to believe that this cannot be readily resolved by a short collaborative effort between yourself and Mr Carlson.

Respectfully