Deboarding crew request all the time

[mseder]

Hi

Every time I start GSX I'll get the "do you want to deboard crew" window.
No matter in what state of the flight I am. Starting a new flight at the gate, landing and approaching a gate.
Restarting Couatl makes no change, running the installer and "check" option do not help either.

What's happening?

Mats

[virtuali]

Can't reproduce this problem, and nobody ever reported it before.

Try all the following:

- Disable any firewall

- Configure the antivirus to add the whole Addon Manager folder to the antivirus Exclusions

- Run the FSDT Live Update again

If that doesn't fix it, try the Offline installer:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,26826.0.html

[mseder]

Hi

"Can't reproduce this problem, and nobody ever reported it before."
Yes the standard reply and have zero use of such statement!

"Configure the antivirus to add the whole Addon Manager folder"
Not an option with McAfee

"- Run the FSDT Live Update again"
I've run it plenty of times and the update seem to work. I just raised the version today.
However, the link/unlink don't seem to work... maybe? The installer tells "active " but NOW, GSX do not even show up in the toolbar.

The folders "fsdreamteam-gsx-pro" and "fsdreamteam-gsx-world-of-jetways" are there in the community folder but how should things actually look like if there is no unlink? There is also a "fsdreamteam-gsx-pro" folder in the Package folder but no "sdreamteam-gsx-world-of-jetways"
The folders in the Community folder acts as symbolic links I guess, and seeing them as shortcuts they point to "C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\MSFS"

Mats
I just bought myself a new PC so everything is new n every aspect.

[mseder]

After some link/unlink attempts it works.
So just drop all this mess.

Mats

[Captain Kevin]

"Can't reproduce this problem, and nobody ever reported it before."
Yes the standard reply and have zero use of such statement!

Sure, I get that that response doesn't help you, but if they can't reproduce the issue, they can't really fix something they can't reproduce. Additionally, if nobody ever reported the issue before, that points to the issue being somewhere on your end somehow. What that may be, I have no idea.

[mseder]

Hi

No I don't agree

"but if they can't reproduce the issue, they can't really fix something they can't reproduce."
From a developer perspective, you'll start asking questions surounding the issue in order to have the best chance to reproduce it or to clarify other circnstances that my explain the issue or that can narrow down the possibilities.

"if nobody ever reported the issue before, that points to the issue being somewhere on your end somehow."
I've met this responce many times and almost on every occasion it turns out that maybe, maybe they had something that almost fit into the case after all.

So sorry, I see your reply as very polite/friendly meant but I can recognize when there is a true engagement for issues and when there is not.

Mats

[Captain Kevin]

"but if they can't reproduce the issue, they can't really fix something they can't reproduce."
From a developer perspective, you'll start asking questions surounding the issue in order to have the best chance to reproduce it or to clarify other circnstances that my explain the issue or that can narrow down the possibilities.

I mean, if you're able to provide more information, that would be helpful. Most of the reports I've seen, not just here, but other forums I've been on, provide so little information that often more questions get asked anyway just to figure out what's going on. If everyone would just provide as much information as possible from the start, it would help since there's a lot of different add-ons, hardware, and software that everyone's using that with very little information, most of us wouldn't even know where to start since we don't know what everyone is using. If somebody's able to provide the exact steps for what they did to consistently reproduce the issue, that would be most helpful.

"if nobody ever reported the issue before, that points to the issue being somewhere on your end somehow."
I've met this responce many times and almost on every occasion it turns out that maybe, maybe they had something that almost fit into the case after all.

Just from my experience from what I've seen, both here and other forums, it's happened before where somebody reported a problem with an add-on, and somewhere somehow, the issue was caused by another add-on that they were using. So it's possible that an add-on or a combination of add-ons you were using could have caused an issue. I have no idea. So....what add-ons were you using, what airplanes, airports, what exactly were you doing when all this happened. As I said earlier, the more information, the better.

[mseder]

" If somebody's able to provide the exact steps for what they did to consistently reproduce the issue, that would be most helpful."

Sure, that would help, but it should be those who knows the system, the logic, also knows the best questions. I can explain 1000 circumstances surrounding why GSX replied the way it did, but Umberto knows the exact logic that surrounds that message and can then take the initiative for gathering leading info.

" it's happened before where somebody reported a problem with an add-on, and somewhere somehow, the issue was caused by another add-on that they were using. "
I recognize that definitely. But...

E.g. I have a new PC I9-13900 RTX 4090  with everything just installed. Still MSFS crashes (not this issue). So I thought maybe it's about other AddOns. So I removed 214 of 215 Addons, spent 2 days on test-scenarios, and it made no change. You know, this consumes  a LOT OF TIME and I make zero money from it. If I though had a log that could capture the error and send it to Asobo probably it would be solved pretty soon.

Software producers these days sell beta versions and let the customers do the bloody test job they should have done in a early stage. Why, because you (well maybe you're a paid tester) and me and others works for free.

"So....what add-ons were you using, what airplanes, airports, what exactly were you doing when all this happened. As I said earlier, the more information, the better."
And as I wrote, the first step should be the support as they know e.g. if an Add on AT ALL could effect the issue, It's not the customers job to write paragraphs of smart potential circumstances to an issue they have zero deep knowledge about. Mostly wasted energy as few details most probably matters.

Mats

And sorry if my words seem a bit ungracious. It's really not anything personal.



 

[Captain Kevin]

Software producers these days sell beta versions and let the customers do the bloody test job they should have done in a early stage. Why, because you (well maybe you're a paid tester) and me and others works for free.

I don't get paid for any of this.

And as I wrote, the first step should be the support as they know e.g. if an Add on AT ALL could effect the issue, It's not the customers job to write paragraphs of smart potential circumstances to an issue they have zero deep knowledge about. Mostly wasted energy as few details most probably matters.

The problem is with the number of add-ons and different hardware and software out there, it's impossible for a developer to test every single one of them. There's easily 1,000 different sceneries out there, I don't know how they would be able to test it with every single one out there to know for sure if there's going to be an issue or not. Sure, I don't expect the customer to understand the inner workings of how an add-on is supposed to work, but likewise, I don't expect the developer to know what add-ons and equipment the customer is using, either. If they know what airplane and airports you're using, they can at least make some attempt to check. Otherwise, with no information, they don't know where to start. There's obviously not much I'm going to be able to do to help, but at least try to get some information that they might wind up asking later.

[mseder]

" I don't expect the developer to know what add-ons and equipment the customer is using, either."

Of course not in detail.  But the tests should be done on a PC that contains LOTS of Addons, maybe only payware.
This is not different from creating any kind of app. You have to test it in different platforms and programs. That's how things work in a professional environment. Yes the world gets more complex but that should not be the burdon of the customer. Make the product work in the real world PERIOD!
The "it works on my computer" excuse is just ridiculous and unprofessional.

Mats

[Captain Kevin]

" I don't expect the developer to know what add-ons and equipment the customer is using, either."

Of course not in detail.  But the tests should be done on a PC that contains LOTS of Addons, maybe only payware.

Okay, but then which add-ons are you going to test it with out of the thousands that are out there. And then how do you know that just because it works with those add-ons that it would also work with other add-ons without issue. A few years back, I was flying JFK to Boston and back as that's a run I typically do if I only have time to do short flights. Normally, I can run that flight without an issue. All of a sudden, I had P3D crash to desktop when I was running the return out of Boston, and it always happened shortly after departure when the airplane was in the vicinity of a particular spot. Since this was a flight I've operated for many years without issue, it definitely couldn't have been a scenery issue with either airport. I pinpointed it down to a Bogota scenery that I had just installed. Uninstalled that, flew the flight again, no issues anymore running that flight. Now how a Bogota scenery would cause issues in the Northeast, I have no idea, but it did happen.

Also, who's going to be purchasing all those add-ons to test. I could be wrong, but I think when it comes to flight simulator developers, most of them don't have an actual office where people come in and work. Most of them are working at home and are all over the world, so it's not like they can just walk up to a computer that already has all these add-ons and be able to test it. Somebody's got to have such a computer with said add-ons to test.

[mseder]

"Okay, but then which add-ons are you going to test it with out of the thousands that are out there. "
Exactly where to draw the limit is up to the producer and to what extent the producer which to test its products.
Anywhere from "it's not working on my computer" which is the sloppiest approach to having Add-ons from some major producers installed, different OS etc I don't know!

"Also, who's going to be purchasing all those add-ons to test."
Well that's part of having a test-environment!! That's part of your business!!
Not having a test environment at all is like telling the customer, "I sell, you test" and back to what I previously wrote, the customers becomes the testers which is more or less criminal.

Developing applications are compiicated business. It by nature involves a LOT OF TESTING and usually complex test situations.
The better you master it, the better products. What is more to say?

Mats

[Captain Kevin]

"Okay, but then which add-ons are you going to test it with out of the thousands that are out there. "
Exactly where to draw the limit is up to the producer and to what extent the producer which to test its products.
Anywhere from "it's not working on my computer" which is the sloppiest approach to having Add-ons from some major producers installed, different OS etc I don't know!

Okay, and then suppose you do that and somebody still manages to have an issue with another add-on, one that happened to not be tested. Then what.

"Also, who's going to be purchasing all those add-ons to test."
Well that's part of having a test-environment!! That's part of your business!!
Not having a test environment at all is like telling the customer, "I sell, you test" and back to what I previously wrote, the customers becomes the testers which is more or less criminal.

The problem is most flight simulator developers, as far as I know, don't have a physical office where people come in and work. They employ people all around the world, so the people who are doing the development work are all doing it from their own personal computers. That makes having a dedicated testing computer hard to do because where would it go, and who would have it. You'd then be limited to just one person testing the product, which isn't very productive, either. I don't think you can force employees to buy and install add-ons they don't plan to use, either.

In any event, what airplane and what airport (and if add-on scenery is being used, which one) were you using when all this happened. Additionally, what other add-ons were you using (Navigraph, any weather add-ons, or anything else) And from the time you loaded the simulator, what exactly, step by step, did you do that led to this happening. If you're able to get a video of this happening, that would also help. Because in my second response to you, I asked you that, and you avoided the question altogether.

[mseder]

"Okay, and then suppose you do that and somebody still manages to have an issue with another add-on, one that happened to not be tested. Then what."
I already answered that. In the real world this is not about testing nothing or testing all. There will always be a gray zone.
My point is to go as far as possible towards as good test environment.
I think you got my point, right?

And regarding the test environment on one or ten computers, working at the office or home it's all a matter of test architecture which can vary in 1000 ways.
Somebody should have the final responsiblity to check the app on many environments, if it's arranged on virtual machines, on emulators or if the code is sent to a college etc, that's an organzational matter. I will not take time to write down a guide for how a test environment should be managed and organized with all possible combinations and solutions.

You can bring upp hundreds of tricky specific examples when the customer has this or that environment, it doesn't matter.
This is about principles and a professional and user friendly support. This binary thinking of yours is not realistic. Every aspect can not be solved and that proves nothing.
ok?


Mats

[Captain Kevin]

Okay, and you still haven't answered the last few questions I asked, which is interesting since you're the one needing assistance. I obviously can't do much since I'm not development team, but if Umberto comes back in here, good chance he'd be asking the same questions. So I find it interesting that I had to ask the same question three times now in the span of 48 hours and still have no information. We aren't mind readers, we can't see what you're seeing. Help us to help you.