Pushback Sequence - change request

[Alpolex]

Dear Umberto,

I would like to adress on of the major issues with GSX in terms of online flying. Indeed, it's not a programming error but a logical sequence problem.
Asking for Pushback during an online session of VATSIM or IVAO requires to be ready to push immediately after approval. However, to be ready upon receiving the clearance it requires to define the direction of pushback before the clearance because it will take between 30-60seconds to finish the pushback preparations of the Tug.

Current Sequence: -> Pushback is requested -> Direction of pushback is asked -> Pushback tug finishes preparations -> ATC clearance requested -> Direction of pushback is being advised -> Pushback is commenced.

If there is a change in direction, there will be no possibility to change the direction on short-notice. Could you please be so kind to enable us to finish all pushback preparations beforehand and in best case have a sub-menu which allows us to change the direction of push in terms of short-notice changes?

Best Regards and thank you!

[Captain Kevin]

Here's an idea. Request the push, and when it asks what direction you want to push, don't select one right away. Call ATC for push. When they tell you, then select the direction. It definitely shouldn't take more than 30 seconds from the point in which you select a direction to the point in which the ground crew tells you to release the parking brakes.

[Alpolex]

Hello Captain Kevin,

thank you. As described in the post above, the timeframe between selecting the direction of pushback and initiation of itself is too long, especially during events.
Therfore the first request: change of sequence

Second problem is if there is any interruption or change in terms of direction after selecting it, therefore the second request or suggestion: change of direction after selecting pushback.

Especially the change of sequence would enhance the ability to cope with requirements for realistic pushback times.

[Captain Kevin]

I did a video demonstration of this because I think you've misunderstood what I was saying. If you take a look at what I've done in the video, you will see that from the point in which I select a direction to the point I release the parking brakes is 2 seconds, and that was because I had to wait for the ground crew to tell me to do that. I don't think it gets any quicker than that. The video is unlisted because I don't intend to keep it up once you've seen it.

[Alpolex]

Yeah, a workaround. However, asking for the pushback to connect and standby until further notice to be ready for a pushback after receiving the ATC clearance, like in real-life, and then selecting the pushback which will be initiated directly, would be the better sequence.

[Captain Kevin]

Yeah, a workaround. However, asking for the pushback to connect and standby until further notice to be ready for a pushback after receiving the ATC clearance, like in real-life, and then selecting the pushback which will be initiated directly, would be the better sequence.

So just to confirm, you are wanting a button to ask the pushback to connect and standby, and then another button for selecting a direction? I'm not sure I understand the logic since you can't hear the pilot voices anyway. Once you initiate the pushback sequence, they'll already be connecting, and if you don't select a direction right away, they would be completing the connection sequence and then standing by anyway until you do.

By the way, I just ran a quick test and selected a direction immediately after it popped up, and the ground crew told me to release the parking brakes right away. So I'm not sure I understand the issue regarding a delay.

[Alpolex]

Hello Captain Kevin,

just to make sure we're talking about the same factors: I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.
Starting the process with "Hello Captain we are ready for pushback" initiates the Ramp Agent going to the NLG to insert the bypass pins. However, after he confirms "bypass bin inserted" the p/b truck starts to arrive (1:11 min) to attach the aircraft to it's tug.
The announcement "locking the gear" (however, unnecessary call-out you wouldn't hear in real-ife) comes around 1:30 min with a pop-up message to state the direciton of pushback.

Selecting the direction it takes another 37 seconds for any movement before the "Release parking brake" announcement comes up.

To be straigh forward, because it seems you are not really understanding what I am asking for: I am not asking for a work-around after several years of intensive usage of GSX especially on VATSIM and online events.

I would like to enhance the sequence.

Improvement: Sequence should be initated with push-back completly ready and asking for direction during a second menu which means there are two stages in the menu:

a) Prepare for Pushback -> all preparations will be made and the tug is connected plus everything is ready upon selecting the next menu
b) Start Pushback -> request for direction and immediate start of pushback

[Captain Kevin]

Selecting the direction it takes another 37 seconds for any movement before the "Release parking brake" announcement comes up.

To be straigh forward, because it seems you are not really understanding what I am asking for: I am not asking for a work-around after several years of intensive usage of GSX especially on VATSIM and online events.

I would like to enhance the sequence.

Improvement: Sequence should be initated with push-back completly ready and asking for direction during a second menu which means there are two stages in the menu:

a) Prepare for Pushback -> all preparations will be made and the tug is connected plus everything is ready upon selecting the next menu
b) Start Pushback -> request for direction and immediate start of pushback

The real question here is why is it taking 37 seconds from the time you select a direction to the time you're told to release the parking brakes because it shouldn't be doing that. As you saw in my video, I call for pushback, and everything's ready to go by the time the request for direction takes place, so as far as I'm concerned, from my video, it's doing exactly what you're wanting it to do. The only thing I can think of is if by some chance, there was an update that happened a while ago where the bypass pin location was added  that the GSX aircraft configuration hadn't been updated for some reason. So here's a quick test. Start a pushback, but stay in external view and watch what the ground crew is doing. If you see the ground crew walk up to the center of the airplane and then back to the nose, this would confirm what I suspect.

[Alpolex]

It's not a question, it's fact similar to other users. As I said, performed with the FSL A320FAM not PMDG.

See quote:

I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.

[gregoryv]

I fully agree with Alpolex.
Logical sequence is looks wrong to me too.
For offline flights it probably not an issue but for flying in Vatsim in busy event it takes too much time.
The proposal to enable to finish all pushback preparations before looks very logical to me.

[Captain Kevin]

It's not a question, it's fact similar to other users. As I said, performed with the FSL A320FAM not PMDG.

See quote:

I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.

Yes, I see that, but even then, I don't think it should be taking that long even with a different airplane. I asked you to check something for me to see if the bypass pin location could be a problem. You haven't done this yet. I can't really do anything else if I don't get an answer to my question since I don't have the FSL A320, so I can't check myself. I do remember that prior to me fixing the bypass pin issue myself, it did take a bit of time from the time I selected a direction to the time I got the call to release parking brakes, but I don't have this issue anymore since I solved the bypass pin issue. Just to be clear, I'm not questioning the fact that it's happening, I'm questioning why it is, and I'm trying to figure this out for you because it shouldn't be doing that.

I fully agree with Alpolex.
Logical sequence is looks wrong to me too.
For offline flights it probably not an issue but for flying in Vatsim in busy event it takes too much time.
The proposal to enable to finish all pushback preparations before looks very logical to me.

I do fly on VATSIM, so I get what you're saying here with regards to timing. What I am saying here is if it works the way it should, it should already be doing what you propose it does. It shouldn't be taking 37 seconds from the time a direction is selected to the time you get the call to release the parking brakes. As far as the bypass pin issue, if there isn't a bypass pin position set in the GSX aircraft configuration, it defaults to 0,0,0, which is the center of the airplane. If that happens, the ground crew has a much longer distance to walk compared to if the bypass pin position is properly set in the GSX aircraft configuration. That's why I'm asking him to check this.

[PavlinS]

Sorry for that message. I realize that I keep the parking brake on nvm I need to turn it off to pushback. Seems that my P3D disconnected my messages on screen so I was sitting on the gate like idiot. Kha, darn, I am so silly........ 

[tcas_test]

100% agree with you here. In real life the pushback is connected and ready to go, as soon a clearance and a tail direction is confirmed pushback only takes a matter of seconds. Not 30-40 seconds which we are waiting at the moment.
Bypass pin - pushback connected - reopen gsx menu to pick direction - pushback commences. This would match the realworld nicely and bring the time down.

Hello Captain Kevin,

just to make sure we're talking about the same factors: I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.
Starting the process with "Hello Captain we are ready for pushback" initiates the Ramp Agent going to the NLG to insert the bypass pins. However, after he confirms "bypass bin inserted" the p/b truck starts to arrive (1:11 min) to attach the aircraft to it's tug.
The announcement "locking the gear" (however, unnecessary call-out you wouldn't hear in real-ife) comes around 1:30 min with a pop-up message to state the direciton of pushback.

Selecting the direction it takes another 37 seconds for any movement before the "Release parking brake" announcement comes up.

To be straigh forward, because it seems you are not really understanding what I am asking for: I am not asking for a work-around after several years of intensive usage of GSX especially on VATSIM and online events.

I would like to enhance the sequence.

Improvement: Sequence should be initated with push-back completly ready and asking for direction during a second menu which means there are two stages in the menu:

a) Prepare for Pushback -> all preparations will be made and the tug is connected plus everything is ready upon selecting the next menu
b) Start Pushback -> request for direction and immediate start of pushback

[Captain Kevin]

100% agree with you here. In real life the pushback is connected and ready to go, as soon a clearance and a tail direction is confirmed pushback only takes a matter of seconds. Not 30-40 seconds which we are waiting at the moment.
Bypass pin - pushback connected - reopen gsx menu to pick direction - pushback commences. This would match the realworld nicely and bring the time down.

And speaking of the bypass pin, did anybody even bother checking to see where GSX thinks the bypass pin actually is on the airplane. I asked twice now, and up until now, nobody's actually done this. This is the only thing I can think of that might cause such a significant delay because one of the previous updates added the bypass pin location into the GSX aircraft configuration. If there isn't a bypass pin position set in the GSX aircraft configuration, it defaults to 0,0,0, which is the center of the airplane. If that happens, the ground crew has a much longer distance to walk compared to if the bypass pin position is properly set in the GSX aircraft configuration. This is the only reason I can think of for such a significant delay. I do remember that prior to me fixing the bypass pin issue myself, it did take a bit of time from the time I selected a direction to the time I got the call to release parking brakes, but I don't have this issue anymore since I solved the bypass pin issue.

[Alpolex]

[aircraft]
nosegear = 9.40
refueling = 0
battery = 0
pushbackraise = 0
pushbackdummyevent = 0
pushbackcheckengines = 0
iscargo = 0
trafficcones = 1
preferredexit =  0
wingrootpos = 3.98 -2.31 -0.95
wingtippos = 15.16 -6.39 -0.08
fuelpos = 10.25 -2.92 -0.67
waterpos = -0.56 -14.45 0.00
lavatorypos = 0.67 -14.49 0.00
gpupos = 0.12 11.90 -2.17
engine1pos = -5.85 1.31 -2.57
engine2pos = 5.87 1.30 -2.57
engine3pos = 0.00 0.00 0.00
engine4pos = 0.00 0.00 0.00

[exit1]
pos = -1.95 9.40 -1.17 3.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door1, number) 2900 >=
name = Left Fwd Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0

[exit2]
remove = 1

[exit3]
remove = 1

[exit4]
pos = -1.70 -15.24 -1.12 -11.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door3, number) 2900 >=
name = Left Aft Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0

[service1]
pos = 1.93 9.50 -1.02 -4.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door2, number) 2900 >=
name = Right Fwd Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0

[service2]
pos = 1.74 -15.15 -1.02 10.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door4, number) 2900 >=
name = Right Aft Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0

[cargo1]
pos = 0.96 6.28 -2.13 0.00
code = (L:FSLA320_upper_cargo_door, number) 2900 >=
name = Upper Cargo Door
embeddedStair = 0
uldcode =""

[cargo2]
pos = 0.94 -8.14 -2.13 0.00
code = (L:FSLA320_lower_cargo_door, number) 2900 >=
name = Lower Cargo Door
embeddedStair = 0
uldcode =""

[cargomain]
remove = 1

Here's the A320CFM GSX Config.
Nevertheless, I would be happy if you could at least start to jump on this topic about the senseless and unrealistic sequence. I am working in the aviation industry and flying on a regular basis as a crew member on the flight deck - so my feedback is based on how those procedures are performed in reality.