Couatl still quits during flight after the Nov 11 Update

[bkasf]

The problem still exists even after the November update. I suspect there is something wrong with the update process since the A310 profiles isn't working properly either (3 ULD loaders), but since you decided not to include any version numbers, there is no way to check.

[virtuali]

Always post a log when reporting a problem like this. The sticky thread named "how to report a problem", indicates how.

And, if you see 3 loaders on the A310, it seems you haven't the latest version. Of course, as explained so many times, not having a "version number" doesn't change in any way your ability to check if you have the latest version.

Without even worrying about *which* version is the latest, the sure way to know if you have the latest version is to check if the Live Updater downloads something OTHER than the 3 kind of files the release notes says they are always supposed to be downloaded every time, which are the Airport Services files, the Jetway replacement files and the custom profiles for FSDT airports so, it's really easy:

Is the Live Updater downloading something OTHER than Airport Services/Jetway replacements/FSDT airport profiles ?

- If YES, you didn't had the latest version, so it's now downloading any files that needed to be updated, and at the end of the process, you SHOULD have the latest version of everything.

- If NO, you already have the latest version.

- If you run the updater again immediately, and is STILL downloading something OTHER than Airport Services, Jetway replacements and FSDT airport profiles, then you have a problem with your local Cloudflare node not having received the latest files. THIS is a tell-tell you need to use the Offline Installer, that's the only case you need to use it.

In addition to that, if your suspect you don't have the latest version just because you have 3 ULD on the A310, check if you have installed a custom profile for the airplane, which is not required, but if you have it, the custom profile will take precedence over the internal GSX database and, since the profile posted at flightsim.to has the MainCargo door set as AUTO (meaning GSX will use ULD, because of its height), while the default GSX data has the MainCargo defined BELT, the loading preference of the custom profile would result having 3 ULDs even if you have all the latest GSX files, so you'll need to remove the airplane custom profile in the case.

[bkasf]

So not having a version number doesn't change the ability to check whether I have the latest version or not? Really? So the only way to check if I'm on the latest version is to run the live update and check if it downloads anything. If it doesn't download anything, I am on the latest version, but hold on, three files are supposed to be downloaded every time. Thank you, just imagine how difficult it would be to open the live updater and it would state "Version 2.4.6", you are absolutely we would never know if we are on the latest version.

So yea, I used the offline installer and then ran the live updater, I can't tell if it downloaded anything because the updater just quits, it could have crashed or completed the update, who knows? I know, you will again defend why the updater just quits without any acknowledgement that the process is completed.

Since I used the offline installer, then the live updater and I do not use a custom file (gsx states it uses the internal aircraft database) I guess something is corrupt with the update

[virtuali]

So not having a version number doesn't change the ability to check whether I have the latest version or not? Really? So the only way to check if I'm on the latest version is to run the live update and check if it downloads anything. If it doesn't download anything, I am on the latest version, but hold on, three files are supposed to be downloaded every time. Thank you, just imagine how difficult it would be to open the live updater and it would state "Version 2.4.6", you are absolutely we would never know if we are on the latest version.

Exactly, and the reason why checking the way I've explained is FAR more reliable than having a version number has been explained so many times, but I'll repeat it again:

- Showing a version number can be misleading, if not *every* single file is checked to be sure it DOES belongs to that version. That's the only way to be absolutely sure every file is the latest version, is to check it one by one. This because GSX is not like an app that has an embedded version number. Sure, we have a main .EXE file ( Couatl64_MSFS.exe ), which has a version number that could be easily checked, but we don't always update the .EXE, there are thousands ( over 30.000 ) files that makes GSX, and almost everyone of them is a kind of file that doesn't have an embedded version like executables do, so the only way to be sure such files are correct, is to check the checksum of your local files against the online version.

I'll try to explain it in a different way:

if we cheated our way out to show you a version number, without verifying each file (and eventually trying to redownload it again, if it didn't come correctly), the only thing that version number would indicate, is the version the updater TRIED to install, with no guarantee all files are correct, and no defense against a future accidental removal or corruption, in case the Update button would "disable" itself if it assumed you had the latest version.

So yea, I used the offline installer and then ran the live updater, I can't tell if it downloaded anything because the updater just quits, it could have crashed or completed the update, who knows?

Are you sure it doesn't show *anything* and just quits ? Normally, assuming GSX is installed ( if something is not installed, it will be skip completely ), you are supposed to see these lines as soon the Updater starts:

Start checking for MSFS updates
Installing unencrypted verions of FSDT sceneries for GSX use
Excluding 3rd party airports from Jetway replacement
Check for Disabled jetway replacement files...

They should stay for some time on screen, like 20-30 seconds at least, followed by other lines to eventually indicated it's downloading something. If you are not seeing these, and you are sure GSX is installed, then maybe the updater really crashed, which is something requiring a completely different kind of troubleshooting so, again, please check if you have these. Assuming, of course, GSX is installed.

I know, you will again defend why the updater just quits without any acknowledgement that the process is completed.

This has also been explained so many times, and it has been requested by users the Live Update would work that way, because some users runs it as part of a startup process, so adding a confirmation at the end would disrupt that process, with a confirmation that would be useless anyway, because since the updater doesn't have anything else to do after it's done, other than quitting, what would be the point of stopping to ask some kind of permission to quit, when there's nothing else left to do than...quitting ? Useless, that's why it quits automatically. Since the Live Updater also indicates what's being downloaded, it seems in your case it hasn't downloaded anything, meaning you have the latest version.

This is only ONE interface of the updater, the one that is supposed to be run without even checking it, possibly as an automated process, which is what you call when you click on the "FSDT Live Update" icon.

But there's ANOTHER icon, which points to exactly the *SAME* program ( we don't have two updaters, is the same .EXE with two interfaces ), that is the "FSDT Installer". This interface gives you control over the update process, so you can check which products to update, and it doesn't quit at the end, so you can have time to see what's happening.

Since I used the offline installer, then the live updater and I do not use a custom file (gsx states it uses the internal aircraft database) I guess something is corrupt with the update

You said the Aircraft editor indicates the A310 is using the internal database, but you haven't said if you checked the MainCargo door is configured with a BELT loader as it's supposed to, that would indicated if you have an outdated file, because the A310 was already in the internal database weeks before SU11, but we changed the MainCargo configuration to be BELT only after it was reported it as a problem, so it's a file that has been updater later.

If you run the updater again immediately, and is STILL downloading something OTHER than Airport Services, Jetway replacements and FSDT airport profiles, then you have a problem with your local Cloudflare node not having received the latest files. THIS is a tell-tell you need to use the Offline Installer, that's the only case you need to use it.

In this case, you need to redownload the offline updater ( because, being offline, it's always constantly updated ), and run it AFTER the Live Update, because if your issue is your are getting an outdated file,

[bkasf]

Exactly, and the reason why checking the way I've explained is FAR more reliable than having a version number has been explained so many times, but I'll repeat it again:

- Showing a version number can be misleading, if not *every* single file is checked to be sure it DOES belongs to that version. That's the only way to be absolutely sure every file is the latest version, is to check it one by one. This because GSX is not like an app that has an embedded version number. Sure, we have a main .EXE file ( Couatl64_MSFS.exe ), which has a version number that could be easily checked, but we don't always update the .EXE, there are thousands ( over 30.000 ) files that makes GSX, and almost everyone of them is a kind of file that doesn't have an embedded version like executables do, so the only way to be sure such files are correct, is to check the checksum of your local files against the online version.

I'll try to explain it in a different way:

if we cheated our way out to show you a version number, without verifying each file (and eventually trying to redownload it again, if it didn't come correctly), the only thing that version number would indicate, is the version the updater TRIED to install, with no guarantee all files are correct, and no defense against a future accidental removal or corruption, in case the Update button would "disable" itself if it assumed you had the latest version.

So then there is something wrong with your entire infrastructure, or do you think that's a user-friendly way for a paying customer?

Are you sure it doesn't show *anything* and just quits ? Normally, assuming GSX is installed ( if something is not installed, it will be skip completely ), you are supposed to see these lines as soon the Updater starts:

Start checking for MSFS updates
Installing unencrypted verions of FSDT sceneries for GSX use
Excluding 3rd party airports from Jetway replacement
Check for Disabled jetway replacement files...

They should stay for some time on screen, like 20-30 seconds at least, followed by other lines to eventually indicated it's downloading something. If you are not seeing these, and you are sure GSX is installed, then maybe the updater really crashed, which is something requiring a completely different kind of troubleshooting so, again, please check if you have these. Assuming, of course, GSX is installed.

Yes, I see those lines, I just let the updater run in the background and at some point, the updater quits. I cannot tell you what has been downloaded, unless I keep the updater open and monitor the console, you don't want me to do that, do you?

This is what I see when I start the updater and it downloads something

Code: [Select]

Start checking for MSFS updates
Installing unencrypted verions of FSDT sceneries for GSX use
Excluding 3rd party airports from Jetway replacement
Check for Disabled jetway replacement files...
DOWNLOADING file D:\Addon Manager\couatl\common\__init__.pye
DOWNLOADING file D:\Addon Manager\couatl\common\aircraftDb.pye


This has also been explained so many times, and it has been requested by users the Live Update would work that way, because some users runs it as part of a startup process, so adding a confirmation at the end would disrupt that process, with a confirmation that would be useless anyway, because since the updater doesn't have anything else to do after it's done, other than quitting, what would be the point of stopping to ask some kind of permission to quit, when there's nothing else left to do than...quitting ? Useless, that's why it quits automatically. Since the Live Updater also indicates what's being downloaded, it seems in your case it hasn't downloaded anything, meaning you have the latest version.

This is only ONE interface of the updater, the one that is supposed to be run without even checking it, possibly as an automated process, which is what you call when you click on the "FSDT Live Update" icon.

But there's ANOTHER icon, which points to exactly the *SAME* program ( we don't have two updaters, is the same .EXE with two interfaces ), that is the "FSDT Installer". This interface gives you control over the update process, so you can check which products to update, and it doesn't quit at the end, so you can have time to see what's happening.

I assume the user base using such a "sophisticated" startup, is rather small. See your comments in bold, it wouldn't be so useless because if there were an acknowledgement I could tell you exactly what has been downloaded

You said the Aircraft editor indicates the A310 is using the internal database, but you haven't said if you checked the MainCargo door is configured with a BELT loader as it's supposed to, that would indicated if you have an outdated file, because the A310 was already in the internal database weeks before SU11, but we changed the MainCargo configuration to be BELT only after it was reported it as a problem, so it's a file that has been updater later.

I will have to check that

In this case, you need to redownload the offline updater ( because, being offline, it's always constantly updated ), and run it AFTER the Live Update, because if your issue is your are getting an outdated file,

So this might be the issue then. I ran the offline updater then the live updater again.

[virtuali]

So then there is something wrong with your entire infrastructure, or do you think that's a user-friendly way for a paying customer?

The two are not exclusive. The "infrastructure" of the updater is reliable, and this is a fact.

In fact, it's even resilient to a possible fault of the server "infrastructure" outside our control, namely the cloudflare cache. Resilient in a way that at least it will TRY to redownload something if the file downloaded is not the one that's supposed to be so, by following the previous instructions about what to check to be sure all your files are fine, you would at least KNOW there's something wrong, so you would KNOW it's time to use the Offline installer.

As I've said, if we just checked the version based on a few files, nothing would prevent you from getting one random wrong file, and the worse is you wouldn't have any way to know it, because you would see "the latest version".

However, I do realize is not EASY to understand for "paying customer". By my faith in paying customer is that, even if it's not super-intuitive (only because other "intuitive" updaters don't really handle fault tolerance this way ), will UNDERSTAND the reasoning behind it, after being explained.

Yes, I see those lines, I just let the updater run in the background and at some point, the updater quits. I cannot tell you what has been downloaded, unless I keep the updater open and monitor the console, you don't want me to do that, do you?

Well, at least I'm relieved it hasn't crashed, so that's a bit different than your initial report that sounded like it started, didn't show *anything*, and it just quit.

This is what I see when I start the updater and it downloads something

Code: [Select]

Start checking for MSFS updates
Installing unencrypted verions of FSDT sceneries for GSX use
Excluding 3rd party airports from Jetway replacement
Check for Disabled jetway replacement files...
DOWNLOADING file D:\Addon Manager\couatl\common\__init__.pye
DOWNLOADING file D:\Addon Manager\couatl\common\aircraftDb.pye


That indicates two files were outdated. Now, are they downloaded AGAIN if you try it another time ? If NO, then you DO have the latest version.

I assume the user base using such a "sophisticated" startup, is rather small. See your comments in bold, it wouldn't be so useless because if there were an acknowledgement I could tell you exactly what has been downloaded

It might be small, but we hear all suggestions when they are made. And since the "complete" interface (the installer), gives you ample feedback what's happening, we left the simpler interface as bare as possible, with NO confirmation dialogs, precisely to make those users that specifically asked to work like that.

[bkasf]

Live Updater->Offline Update

Coutal still quits during flight

[virtuali]

Live Updater->Offline Update

Coutal still quits during flight

Try again with the SU10 Navdata disabled.