Improve pusback editing system.

[Awemeter]

Could you please improve the quick edit system for pusback and make it more like  toolbar push where it opens a map and you can use your mouse to add waypoints. 

[virtuali]

Could you please improve the quick edit system for pusback and make it more like  toolbar push where it opens a map and you can use your mouse to add waypoints.

That wouldn't be an "improvement".

The QuickEdit as it is now, not only is quicker to use than am overlaid map in 2D, but it also more functional, since the 2D map will only show you the bare ground textures of the scenery, while the current 3D view will show the *actual* scenery, in 3D, including all possible obstructions of buildings, ground details and other ground/AI vehicles, which are usually the main reasons why you want to use a Custom pushback to begin with, since most of the time the automatic Left/Right function works.

The Custom Pushback is more needed in situations like being at the end of a terminal, where one direction would have placed you with the tail inside a building and the other in the wrong direction, that's why it's important to see the whole scenery in 3D, because it's when you need it the most.

[Awemeter]

You can see obstructions in 2d with a little panel or quickly go to external view with a keybind. With something like xplanes better pushback of toolbar pusback you only need 3 keybinds and lose the possibility of having a green dot line stuck on your sim. With GSX you need over 10 different keybinds.

[Copper]

That wouldn't be an "improvement".

The QuickEdit as it is now, not only is quicker to use than am overlaid map in 2D [...]

I disagree on that. And I've read a lot of complaints from people coming from XPlane or after using the Pushback Toolbar addon which are both 2D and they used them for months and years without your mentioned issues.

You can say that *you* find it quicker (as someone working on profiles and knowing all the shortcuts by heart that's no wonder), but stating it as an overall fact is not true. Many users are using GSX without ever having the need to learn all the 3D editing shortcuts - for them, QuickEdit is as clumsy as it could be compared to the 2D panels of other solutions.

I understand that the way it is right now matches the rest of the editing process of GSX so changing that to 2D might be quite a lot of work.
But discarding the valid argument that people have about ease of use of the QuickEdit is not the best approach to be fair.

[virtuali]

I disagree on that. And I've read a lot of complaints from people coming from XPlane or after using the Pushback Toolbar addon which are both 2D and they used them for months and years without your mentioned issues.

And it's precisely because they used it for years, that they complained GSX is different.

You always complain about something different, when you are accustomed to doing something in a certain way for years, so you don't realize the new way can better, more accurate, more useful to check actual obstructions and, AFTER YOU LEARN IT, it is even quicker.

I understand that the way it is right now matches the rest of the editing process of GSX so changing that to 2D might be quite a lot of work.

That's another argument in favor of being it as it is now.

Once you learn any one of the GSX editors ( QuickEdit, Vehicles Parking positions, Pax/Walker waypoints and soon Remote Deicing areas editor ) and become familiar with they way they work, they all become easier to use at the same time.

[Copper]

Once you learn any one of the GSX editors ( QuickEdit, Vehicles Parking positions, Pax/Walker waypoints and soon Remote Deicing areas editor ) and become familiar with they way they work, they all become easier to use at the same time.

As mentioned, most users have no contact to airport configuration AT ALL. They don't have to, they just use profiles. Remembering all the keybinds just for the QuickEdit pushback (if you use it rarely anyway) is quite a hurdle for many people - especially since the keybinds are not intuitive (e.g. adding waypoints etc.).

It's not just about being used to another way - it's also that for many users editing the pushback via mouse on a 2D screen is much more intuitive and easy. No need to argue against that, it's just personal preference. Saying that they are just used to it is suggesting that their opinion is wrong - it is not.

[virtuali]

As mentioned, most users have no contact to airport configuration AT ALL. They don't have to, they just use profiles. Remembering all the keybinds just for the QuickEdit pushback (if you use it rarely anyway) is quite a hurdle for many people - especially since the keybinds are not intuitive (e.g. adding waypoints etc.).

The keys can't be more intuitive than they already are: how you can possibly say cursor keys are not intuitive ?

The ones that might be less intuitive, as you just said, are the waypoints. But the thing is, you don't have to use them very often.

Yes, I keep seeing video tutorials explaining the QuickEdit Pushback, and they all try to use way more waypoints than it's really required, because they are accustomed ( again, old habits makes you lose sight of a better system sometimes ) to the concept of waypoints, so they try to "force" the pushback path to pass through them, which most of the times is overkill, because those aren't really waypoints, they are control points of a spline, which means you rarely need more than 1 or 2, since GSX will fit a curve through them which is better and smoother than one using an unnecessarily number of waypoints.

And even these two can be placed automatically, because I keep seeing tutorials forgetting about the N.1 most useful function in the whole QuickEdit editor: the automatic placement of waypoints with NumPad5, which places two waypoints in a sensible position that will also achieve automatically the result of having the pushback perfectly aligned with the airplane at the end of pushback.

So, in 99% of the situations, the only keys you really need are:

- Cursor keys to move the airplane pointer ( obviously intuitive )
- NumPad 1/3 to rotate the airplane pointer.
- NumPad 5 to create the automatic way points.

And that's it. This will solve almost every case the automatic Left/Right pushback couldn't already solve by itself.

It's not just about being used to another way - it's also that for many users editing the pushback via mouse on a 2D screen is much more intuitive and easy. No need to argue against that, it's just personal preference. Saying that they are just used to it is suggesting that their opinion is wrong - it is not

Where, exactly, I used the term "intuitive" or "easy" ? I never said that. I said that, AFTER YOU LEARN it, the GSX way is better, more accurate, more useful to check actual obstructions and even quicker. In fact, the very sentence "after you learn it", clearly indicates never tried to pass the GSX method as "easier" or "more intuitive".

The little time you spend learning how it works, will save you more and more time, the more you use it.

[Phil7789]

To be fair GSX isn't that clumsy. I fiddled around with the controls to try and learn them / create own profiles. Now whenever I need QuickEdit when I don't have a profile or have a conditional pushback by ATC it takes me about 10 - 15 seconds to create a custom pushback.

I used BetterPushback with XP11 and I get the idea that it is more intuitive when you can just point with your "finger" where the plane should be and rotate with the mouse but once your used to the controls it is as fast.

I don't use additional waypoints at all other than extending the pushback straight when the taxiway is a bit farther away and to workaround the bug that the green dots don't disappear and the pushback doesn't start (the bug may have vanished during an update but I didn't have the time to test).

So in 90% of the pushbacks I use 1 additional waypoint at most if at all .

[ImPlasmaTbh]

+1 for this. At the very least, you should give users an option to decide whether they want a 2d panel where they can set waypoints for pushback or in a 3d environment.

I find it extremely cumbersome to create waypoints in it's current implementation as it forces you to use the numpad to modify the waypoints - and not everyone has a 100% keyboard. I have an 80% keyboard with no numpad, and the only way for me to change where I want to push (specifically, the direction of the plane) is to use the virtual keyboard. If I want large inputs, then I have to constantly click on SHIFT on the virtual keyboard before the numpad number to change the direction and it gets tiring and annoying fast (recently, i've started to just hope the airport data is correct and use the built in waypoints for airports without profile and blame bad pushback on GSX if something goes wrong and ATC asks because I cannot be arsed positioning it properly)

This is an issue that many people will face because not everyone will have 100% keyboards either due to personal preference or size reasons. I recall making a post about this issue because it bugged me. This is a nonissue with a 2D pushback panel.

When it comes to using something like better pushback or toolbar pushback, it is effortless to plan my pushback manually because it just takes some clicks - nothing more and nothing less. The issue you mentioned of people being able to see obstacles is a nonissue (I have had zero issues with this at all). Whenever I go back to xplane, I always prefer the pushback method offered by better pushback due to it's ease of use and I can use it without skipping a beat - and this is coming from someone who bought GSX Pro on the same week of launch.

The 3D pushback environment takes too much time to use and is too big of a hassle.

Please give us a 2D panel for pushback. 🙏