Author Topic: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end  (Read 7740 times)

Bentree

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2022, 07:07:33 pm »
Didn't try the Fenix with GSX Pro until now....first two days I was busy to get GSX to work in any way....but now it does, what i can say is that the PMDG B737 also jumps up after disconnecting the tug.

mertayd1n

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2022, 07:51:52 pm »
same here. the same thing (or worse) happens with captainsim 777s. The plane is sinking into the ground.

ralfy124

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2022, 07:57:43 pm »
Yeah I tried and had that jump, too, when the guy removed the towbar, although it did not cause anything bad in the Fenix. Not quite sure why this is happening.

Of course it did cause bad in the Fenix, because after the jump and "touch down" on the ground, Fenix think it has landed and is not in the take off phase anymore which has been programmed in the FMC beforehand which leads to problems when taking off causing some beeps and blinks after you begin your take off role. Quite annoying while taking off.

Regards
Ralf

thebig_leo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2022, 04:36:50 am »
I'm having the same problem here, but before starting the push, as soon as it releases the brake. Using Citation Longitude

joergalv

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2022, 12:06:25 pm »
The latest update has introduced those 'jumps' in the P3D version as well.
Joerg Alvermann

Artox67

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2022, 12:11:02 pm »
Yeah I tried and had that jump, too, when the guy removed the towbar, although it did not cause anything bad in the Fenix. Not quite sure why this is happening.

Of course it did cause bad in the Fenix, because after the jump and "touch down" on the ground, Fenix think it has landed and is not in the take off phase anymore which has been programmed in the FMC beforehand which leads to problems when taking off causing some beeps and blinks after you begin your take off role. Quite annoying while taking off.

Regards
Ralf
Simple workaround, do not press TO button before PB ends.

Cheers

Erwin06

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2022, 09:37:04 am »
Same issue, this needs to be fixed.

jgoggi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2022, 09:42:21 am »
Indeed, I don't know why GSX can't work like Toolbar Pushback by AmbitiousPilot in this area. That pushback smoothly raises the nose gear and smoothly lowers it at the end. With GSX there is an unnatural jump in both cases.
James Goggi

avantime

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2022, 10:29:27 am »
Same on towbar tug (Fenix A320, 73.5T Gross, 27.5 CG MAC), the aircraft does a bit of a "oleo compression" with touchdown sound when towbar is disconnected.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2022, 10:35:10 am by avantime »

hurfifx

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2022, 01:04:43 pm »
Indeed, I don't know why GSX can't work like Toolbar Pushback by AmbitiousPilot in this area. That pushback smoothly raises the nose gear and smoothly lowers it at the end. With GSX there is an unnatural jump in both cases.

it doesn’t, it lift and unlift the aircraft before push (but it does it slowly so you won’t notice) and it’s lift is highly unrealistic

thebig_leo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2022, 08:25:50 pm »
I haven't tried it with the Fenix yet, but this could very well be due to the "raise gear" option, yes. This seems to trigger some unwanted stuff in the Fenix.

But as I said, I have unticked that option. And it is not raised.
But I get the drop despite it

Can you tell me where this tag is?

Fiorentoni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 129
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2022, 08:27:35 pm »
I haven't tried it with the Fenix yet, but this could very well be due to the "raise gear" option, yes. This seems to trigger some unwanted stuff in the Fenix.

But as I said, I have unticked that option. And it is not raised.
But I get the drop despite it

Can you tell me where this tag is?

GSX menu in toolbar -> airplane options (or customization? something like that)

pilot3033

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2022, 12:27:39 am »
Same on towbar tug (Fenix A320, 73.5T Gross, 27.5 CG MAC), the aircraft does a bit of a "oleo compression" with touchdown sound when towbar is disconnected.

I am experiencing this in the PMDG 737-700, complete with the gear sound as if I was landing.

Barnes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2022, 02:02:35 pm »
Hi Umberto. Any ideas on a solution to this issue ?

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 50875
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: FENIX A320 jumping on pushback end
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2022, 02:43:30 pm »
Hi Umberto. Any ideas on a solution to this issue ?

There are two issues, which are not exactly the same:

- A small bump after disconnecting the towbar. This will happen regardless of the airplane, but it changes depending on the scenery, and it's due to the fact almost every airport in MSFS has some kind of elevation difference.

The way GSX pushback works, it freezes the airplane, but it doesn't disable the simulation, otherwise the airplane and the tow truck would proceed in a straight line, always at the same initial altitude MSL, because with the simulation disabled, they won't "feel" the terrain underneath. Also, disabling the simulation would disable almost all systems so, clearly, that's not an option. Instead, when the airplane is just frozen, it won't move during the pushback, so there will be no jittery due to fight between the flight model and GSX controlling it, but when the terrain changes elevation during the path, the airplane inertia system will register it so, at the end of the pushback, when it gets unfrozen, the altitude difference will catch up, causing that bump. We use some mitigation feature, like setting all the acceleration variables to 0 just before and just after unfreezing, but couldn't manage to remove it entirely. The issue is, if we didn't freeze the airplane during pushback, it you start engines, it's likely that just the movement caused by idle thrust might be enough to cause jitters, because two vectors forces would be fighting at each frame, the tow truck would likely slide as if was on ice, etc. We found that kind of bump to be a minor nuisance, compared to the alternatives.

An alternative might have been using the default Left/Right pushback events, like other default-based systems do, but that's not precise enough for what we need, since we couldn't control the position and especially the heading as finely as we can do now (small decimals of a degree), we would have a coarse Left/Right control that, since input events are processed only at 6hz, would probably always chasing the line, in addition of course to the aggravation of spamming simconnect with events, instead of setting data variables, which is way gentler to the simulation.

Having the option to raise the gear or not in Towbarless truck doesn't make any difference, once the airplane is frozen, it doesn't really matter if it's pitched up or not. We have a custom value that has been tuned manually to show just the right amount of pitch up, depending on the airplane, they don't react the same, it depends on their payload and the shockers compression value.

- Some reaction in the airplane custom systems.

That's a completely different issues, and it can be fixed completely once you'll see the first developers integrating GSX. They can detect when GSX is pushing and change any assumptions affected system about the airplane status, so it won't trigger any specific alarms.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 12:16:35 am by virtuali »