More Realistic RPMs on Approach

[Sludge]

Has anyone delved into getting the Acc Hornet underpowered or with higher drag flaps to correctly fit the RPM profile on approach?

So far, the best I could come up with was changing the static thrust to 7000.  Any higher and I would regularly stay below 80 percent on final while easily maintaining glideslope with approx. 35 kts Wind Over Deck (too overpowered).  From the NATOPS charts, RPMs should be around 85-89 percent at the 180 all the way to final and trap?  Any lower and my top end (max military) was pathetic for a modern jet fighter and wayyy low for the actual Hornet, after 30 seconds accel, under 500 kts at 1000 ft AGL (highly underpowered).

Im gonna try messing with the .air file, and see if I cant add a decent amount of extra drag for full flaps and underpower the static thrust to around 9 or 10k.  Hopefully, will see more realistic results.

Well, if you have any ideas or have experimented along these lines, please fire back my way.
Later
Sludge

[SpazSinbad]

Sludge, IMHO it seems the lack of high RPM sensitivity/power is a perennial problem with Fligh Simulator Military Jet Fighters. It would be my biggest gripe with them and with the KAHU Skyhawk for example. This problem was not really resolved with A4K because the person responsible for the engine did not give me a chance to retest it before KAHU was released. Apparently it is a difficult issue to resolve. Of course I have not flown a Hornet but imagine that the engine is very responsive in the carrier landing configuration with only minute RPM changes/throttle changes to get something happening.

Another gripe would be that the RPM on a lot of FS miljets wanders all over the place after being set. Perhaps this is more to do with my own setup making the situation worse but the RPM should be set - go to new setting - and stay there without creeping up or down - without pilot input. Anyway personally I found that the Hornet appeared quite good in this regard (engine) but I can only compare to the venerable A4G. Having flown older - controlled by the pilot with throttle only - jet engines [as seen in the Vampire and Sea Venom where engine response was very slow - but predictable] any new jet engine is a marvel!  :-)

[Sludge]

Spaz...

Actually, I like the responsiveness just not the actual power curve as related to actual RPMs needed to maintain glideslope.  I mean, if needed, I can get from idle to 85 percent really quick.  However, it seems that this FSX Hornet is highly overpowered, not unresponsive, as I can easily maintain altitude and/or get on glideslope with 70-75 percent power on the lower end of the bucket.

I will mess around with the .air file tonite and see what my results are, and post them, so if anybody cares or wants to help me out, they can.  Basically, Im looking for a mod that will keep me on glideslope at 85-89 percent power (as per NATOPS), yet maintain the high end power curve that at FULL MIL power, I can get around 600-650 kts, just under supersonic.  That seems realistic to me.

Later
Sludge

[SpazSinbad]

Sludge, then what weight are you going to use as a benchmark? Max trap weight will keep your RPMs higher than lowest trap weight (at bingo fuel whatever that low figure might be). Perhaps an average between these two extremes might be worthwhile (as a standard to work from).

[sonofabeech]

hey sludge if you need me to test things for you just send me a message ..I would really like to see this happen !!

Sonofabeech out

[Paco]

Everyone,

    Just my two cents.  As a former military pilot with over 7000 hrs of turbine time, I feel the FSX Hornet is WAY overpowered and others have noticed this as well.  As is the T-38 for FS9 and other FS military jets.  The VRS Superbug for FS9 has a far better flight model, where one has to pay more attention to power vs. airspeed vs. flight regime.   This one area where I'm really looking forward to the FSX version of Superbug.

Paco

[Sludge]

Spaz...

Im roughly in the 5-6k fuel regime in the default Hornet when I start out and go from there.  Last nite, I played with the numbers and worked more on upping the landing gear and flaps drag values in the .air file, than I did changing the static thrust on the aircraft.cfg file.

Right now on the default "clean" Hornet, from memory, I have 250 flaps drag, 150 gear drag, and 55 fuselage drag, in the fa-18.air file.  I have 9000 static dry thrust as the value in the aircraft.cfg file.  At 5k fuel, on carrier final, I was maintaining glide w/energy caret just a hair above the v/vector even line, at 85 percent thrust.  Additionally, at 7k MSL, I could get 620 kts at FULL MIL.  These flight parameters are getting closer to what I consider a realistic flight envelope.  Tonite, I will continue to experiment and give more results.

Additionally, Ive been working on the CaptSim F-18D in parallel, w/the exception of CARRIER landings.  So far, the main difference has been using 10k as a static thrust instead of 9k, as listed above.  This helps to offset the additional drag and weight of the weapons/drop tank I have loaded and is more realistic as well, being the D-model has more powerful/efficient engines than the A-model.  More importantly, this change helps the CaptSim Hornet behave VERY SIMILARLY to the default as far as low and high end flight profiles.  In example, my max speed was .9 mach at 20k MSL at FULL MIL.  Landing on a shore facility, I was on-glide at 88 percent power.  So, all in all, a good baseline for this modification in getting more accurate flight speeds/RPMs in comparison to the real Hornet.

So to all who would like to help, input the numbers I have for both the default and C/S Hornets in the .air file, and use 9k static (default) and 10k static (C/S) for static thrust in the aircraft.cfg and let me know what your results are.  BTW, before I forget, any help is appreciated, but if you are unfamiliar with modding your .air file or not comfy messing with your aircraft.cfg file, please dont change what you got.  If you are good with modding, always remember to BACK UP your .air and .cfg file before making these changes.

Later
Sludge

[Sludge]

Good news fellers...

OK, did both carrier landing, shore facility landing, cross country flights, and FULL MIL climbouts to 10k w/the default and C/S D-Hornet.  Am pretty satisfied with the new envelope and Ill probly use these numbers from here on out.

The numbers are the same as listed before with the following exceptions.  On the both Hornets, in the aircraft.cfg, I changed the induced_drag=1.1, which gives 10 percent more drag as AoA increases.  This easily puts the RPMs within the 85-89 range when on-glide behind the carrier and even when shore landing.  Also, for both, it gives me a .9 mach max at FULL MIL, which to me seems realistic as I think the only bird that can "supercruise" (Mach 1.0 and higher w/out afterburner) is the F-22.

Pretty happy with my results so far.  Anyone else who has tried this, let me know your results when you get a chance.
Later
Sludge

[Paco]

Sludge,

   Can you send me the numbers.  I'd like to try it.   Did you just change the drag ratio?

Thanks,
 Paco

[GOONIE]

Sludge,

Any chance of you posting your updated .air file? I've updated the aircraft.cfg, but cannot update the .air file.

Thanks,
Capt

[Sludge]

For all....

Right now, Im at "work" and cannot send my .air files.  In the meantime, I will give you the numbers for the aircraft.cfg's and the .air files.  When I get home, I will post both C/S and default Hornet .air files here.

Default and C/S Hornet .air file
Flaps Drag = 250, Landing Gear Drag = 150, Fuselage Drag = 55

Default Hornet aircraft.cfg file
Induced Drag Scalar = 1.1, Static Thrust = 9000, Parasite Drag Scalar = 1.0

C/S Hornet aircraft.cfg file
Induced Drag Scalar = 1.1, Static Thrust = 10000, Parasite Drag Scalar = 1.2

Have fun
Later
Sludge

[Sludge]

Alrighty fellers...

Here's my .air file for the default (1st file) and C/S Hornet-D (2nd), in order.  I included both as there is a small difference in the fuselage drag.  Just a small change to slow up the default a bit, since it gets too fast on the top end.  Simply unzip and place the fa-18.air in the default FA-18 folder, then rename fa-18d.air to fa-18.air and place in C/S FA-18 folder.

Enjoy and see you all saturday at the big MP shindig.

Later
Sludge

[sonofabeech]

Thanks Sludge good to fly with you last night I was using your new data. Didnt stand a snowballs chance in hell of competing in the race for the carrier but the power settings on final approach dirtied up with the newdrag indices definitely felt a lot better. I managed to beat j.r. to the carrier but then again he was flying a helicopter lol
Thanks for the mod ..

Sonofabeech out

[Sludge]

In light of last week's tweaks and their success, and now with the Blue Angel's FSX Hornet update coming out, I can list all the tweaks I have installed or manually done to my plane.  In the multiplayer, alot of people visually noticed my landing gear tweak and seemed to like it.  As of now, it LAUNCHES successfully (100 percent) off of all carriers (AICarriers, Javier's, default) on ANY CAT.  Just be sure to have FULL REALISM enabled and you must launch with FULL FLAPS selected.  Plus, its far more forgiving on minor misaligned carrier landings than the default by far.
1. JR/Printz NEW HUD w/ILS.
2. Clear cockpit and HUD glass.  Not so realistic, but would rather SEE CLEARLY and have fun than use the mucky glass and struggle to find the ball on carrier landing.
3. No speed change/head bob or speed brake/aircraft attitude pitch up.
4. Manual Flaps.  A MUST have to get FULL FLAPS for the default Hornet and do far more precise carrier landings.
5. More realistic power curve (ie, max MIL POWER .9 mach, far more Hornet NATOPS realistic RPMs, 85-89 percent, for on-speed, on-glideslope carrier landings).
6. Wing Vapor (same effect as Blue Angels current mod but with lower application points... quite simply, you can get it to trigger/happen more often)
7. Darker smoke that trails the aircraft at/above 88 percent N2.
8. Self-added Indexer for Widescreen F/Screen HUD.  Lets me fly Ball, Indexer, Lineup all the way down.  Could turn off the ICLS needles and still hit 3 wire everytime.
9. PLAT Cam w/line up, for use when doing LSOs in MP for carrier landings.
Thats about it.  If I remember anymore, Ill float them to ya.  If you have trouble getting these to work or have any questions, send my way.  I will include a zip file that has my current .air file, my aircraft.cfg file, and my panel.cfg, so you can give most of these a try yourself.  Backup before modding.

Thats it.  Have a good day
Later
Sludge

[Orion]

Nice list of tweaks Sludge!  May have to try some of those some time .

One thing to note for others using the modified .AIR file: If you go into a multiplayer session, the host will be notified that your aircraft is mismatched and will be asked if they want to eject you from the session.  Just thought I'd throw that out there .

Edit: Here's an idea - make another FA-18 entry in your SimObjects and alias the panel, model, sounds and all that stuff to the default, but add the new air file and change the aircraft.cfg title fields and amend AIR Update to each title or something like that.  That way, it'll appear as a different aircraft to FSX and multiplayer will just substitute it (hopefully with the default FA-18) instead of saying that it's mismatched.