Choice of Ground Handler - How to set preferences?

[Fragtality]

Is there a way to configure the choice of the operator in advance on a per aicraft/livery basis?

Maybe an example will make it clearer:
When I arrive with a DLH livery, GSX offers me besides DLH also the operator for SAS, AEE and TAP (Example from EDDF A17, CF-Config).
I always have to choose manually because the GSX Default Choice just picks something random.
I'm searching for a way to tell GSX that for the currently loaded aircraft livery (or at least aircraft), only specific operators are allowed.

Yes it could be done through altering the Airport Config, but I'm looking way that is more flexible than fiddling with airport configs in advance.

If not possible: maybe it is possible to add this feature someday the future? Doesn't have to be polished, just an additional variable for the aircraft config file would be nice

[airbadger]

Ah, my least favorite part of GSX. Taxiing in after landing and selecting a gate? Whoops, your operator isn't an option! Time to restart Couatl, wait, then dig into the menu and set the right code. Editing the airport config ahead of time is really the only thing you can do.

[couger]

You can set it in the airport positions.   In the edit airport position you can select a specific carrier to work at that position. But I don’t know that you can set it for a particular aircraft livery.  Maybe this would be a good option for fsdt to look at implementing in the future?

[Fragtality]

In that case ... I hereby declare a feature request 
(operator preferences list in aircraft config, to be checked on operator election for an automatic selection)

[virtuali]

This has been explained so many times on the forum, and of course is explained in the manual too. NOTHING of the airplane livery you are flying has any effect on the choice of operators and, it would be WRONG if it was.

The ground operator is something that is local to the airport, or parts of the airport ( terminals, for example ).

The way GSX works if the most correct, for the following reasons:

1) If the operator was related to the airplane you are flying, you would end up in the very unrealistic situation of your own operator following you everywhere in the world, which is of course wrong. Just because you are a Scandinavian airplane, would you expect to get your Scandinavian crew when you land in Africa ? So, linking the operator to your airplane livery is wrong.

2) If the operator was related JUST to the parking airline codes, similar wrong situations will happen, because parking codes usually shows code-sharing partners at overseas airport. If you are a United airplane and land at Frankfurt, it would be also unrealistic to be served by a United crew in Germany JUST because EDDF has several gates with UAL codes, because they are used by UAL too.

That's why, what GSX does right now is the most realistic choice, which is:

- The operators are assigned to the airport, using priority rules with a scoring system. So, before having any chance to be selectable, an operator must be ALLOWED on that airport first. This prevents all the unrealistic situations explained in #1 and #2 above.

- When there are several operators that are all allowed with the SAME highest score on the airport, the parking codes at the gate are used to "BREAK TIES", so you can still differentiate between different terminals/gates, but still amongst the ones that were already chosen to be appropriate for that airport.

- You can also OVERRIDE the airline codes with the GSX customization, so you can choose ONE operator that will be always used there, regardless of the scoring system.

The airplane livery you are flying, instead, matters only to the choice of the ULD containers, because they are the opposite of ground operators: they should NOT change by airport and, instead, are usually property of your airline. If your airplane has the proper parking airline codes in the aircraft.cfg, it will prevent having different ULDs at departure and landing.

So, the current system offers already an extremely high level of realism and flexibility. Nothing is "RANDOM", when there's some randomization involved, it's always between PLAUSIBLE operators.

The only thing we might possibly add, is some kind of relationship between your airline and the operator choice, provided the operator has already been selected according to the airport ICAO rules and the scenery parking codes so, it will be like an extra filter, but I guess it must be a one-to-many relationship, for example a list of all the "preferred" operators of your airline.

[Fragtality]

1) If the operator was related to the airplane you are flying, you would end up in the very unrealistic situation of your own operator following you everywhere in the world, which is of course wrong. Just because you are a Scandinavian airplane, would you expect to get your Scandinavian crew when you land in Africa ? So, linking the operator to your airplane livery is wrong.

That was not what I asked for and not what I intend with that feature request! I meant a LIST, or described in another way: an array. MULTIPLE Values
And what I meant with "to be checked on operator election": this preferences list is checked against the local available operators. If no match with the preferences list -> standard behaviour.

2) If the operator was related JUST to the parking airline codes, similar wrong situations will happen, because parking codes usually shows code-sharing partners at overseas airport. If you are a United airplane and land at Frankfurt, it would be also unrealistic to be served by a United crew in Germany JUST because EDDF has several gates with UAL codes, because they are used by UAL too.

Hmm - good point! Maybe something like ... I don't know ... a preferences list could help with that? 

The way GSX works if the most correct, for the following reasons:

That's why, what GSX does right now is the most realistic choice, which is: [...]

So, the current system offers already an extremely high level of realism and flexibility. Nothing is "RANDOM", when there's some randomization involved, it's always between PLAUSIBLE operators.

Uhm ... and why is it that I get offered AEE at EDDF? And why is it that it is sometimes picked as GSX Default Choice?
Thats completely unrealistic even with an AEE Aircraft. AEE is handled by FraPort Ground Services, they have no own operator there!
https://www.frankfurt-airport.com/de/airlines/a3.html
Interesting fact: SAS is handled by Lufthansa xD

The only thing we might possibly add, is some kind of relationship between your airline and the operator choice, provided the operator has already been selected according to the airport ICAO rules and the scenery parking codes so, it will be like an extra filter, but I guess it must be a one-to-many relationship, for example a list of all the "preferred" operators of your airline.

OK! I'll take that instead
It's described in another way, but that is exactly my intent
I even would offer to help coding that feature ^^

[virtuali]

That was not what I asked for and not what I intend with that feature request! I meant a LIST, or described in another way: an array. MULTIPLE Values

Which is precisely what I said we might do, when I said "one-to-many relationship"

Hmm - good point! Maybe something like ... I don't know ... a preferences list could help with that?

I'm not following you here.

Uhm ... and why is it that I get offered AEE at EDDF? And why is it that it is sometimes picked as GSX Default Choice?

You are now confusing the METHOD used by GSX, with the actual database. The method is obviously sound, but we cannot possibly be sure all rules has been setup correctly in the default rules files. WHICH IS WHY, GSX being the incredibly flexible program it is, allows you to even override the stock rules!

Thats completely unrealistic even with an AEE Aircraft.

I think I said it already: nothing of the user aircraft has any effect over the choice of the ground operator.

AEE is handled by FraPort Ground Services, they have no own operator there!

I checked and no, GSX DOES NOT assign AEE at EDDF. There's only ONE operator with a score of 4 at EDDF and it is, guess what, Fraport ( obviously ). AEE only has a score of 2 at airports with ICAO codes starting with LG so, it has no chance to be chosen at EDDF.

Of course, I tried it in the sim as well right now, and I got Fraport with no choice menu, which is the intended behavior when only one operator has the highest score.

[Fragtality]

Which is precisely what I said we might do, when I said "one-to-many relationship"

Then we have now established that we basically want the same thing
Is there anything we (the users) could do to change the "we might do" to a "we will do it someday"?

I'm not following you here.

Sorry, just a bad joke, not important anymore.

You are now confusing the METHOD used by GSX, with the actual database. The method is obviously sound, but we cannot possibly be sure all rules has been setup correctly in the default rules files. WHICH IS WHY, GSX being the incredibly flexible program it is, allows you to even override the stock rules!

I think I said it already: nothing of the user aircraft has any effect over the choice of the ground operator.

I didn't mean to question the method nor the database. It was a general question to why I get that result described earlier.

I checked and no, GSX DOES NOT assign AEE at EDDF. There's only ONE operator with a score of 4 at EDDF and it is, guess what, Fraport ( obviously ). AEE only has a score of 2 at airports with ICAO codes starting with LG so, it has no chance to be chosen at EDDF.

Of course, I tried it in the sim as well right now, and I got Fraport with no choice menu, which is the intended behavior when only one operator has the highest score.

In that case I kindly ask for help/support I've tested just now in the sim, and it does assign AEE (see attachment). So what is wrong with my installation/configuration?!
It's the same when I use the standard/internal configuration and only modify A17 for DLH,AEE,SAS,TAP.
With no modification I get no menu to select an operator (the AFCAD has only DLH on A17) - I don't know if Fraport or Lufthansa is choosen (can't see it due to render-texture and P3D V5).
Is there another way how I can see which operator was assigned (I already looked in the log file)?

[virtuali]

In that case I kindly ask for help/support I've tested just now in the sim, and it does assign AEE (see attachment). So what is wrong with my installation/configuration?!

Not possible to say without knowing:

- Which scenery you use

- If you customized ( and how ) it with GSX profile

- If you haven't customized it yourself, if you are using a GSX profile made by somebody else ( either scenery developer or another user )

- If you have changed anything in the rules files.

Is there another way how I can see which operator was assigned (I already looked in the log file)?

GSX will always say "Handling by ..." when you select a gate. Not that this matters: you should haven't see a menu to begin with, not at EDDF.

[Fragtality]

Sorry, here the missing informations 

Simulator: P3D v5 HF2
Scenery: AS Frankfurt Professional 2.0.1.0, AFCAD not modified (and OrbX, but shouldn't matter?)
Location: EDDF A17 (has only set DLH in the AFCAD)
Customization:
- rules files not modified (deleted them and did a live update, just in case something else did)
- With no GSX profile / customization: No menu, Fraport is choosen
- User Customization through GSX UI, setting DLH,SAS,AEE,TAP as airlinecodes for A17 (nothing else): All for airlines are offered, Fraport is not offered, default choice is one of these 4 airlines ("random" / equal points).
- With Cartayna VX file/profile (same airline codes as above): the same result (latest files from simmarket)
- Even when I add _FRA,FRAPORT (plus the 4 airlinecodes): Fraport is offered, but the default choice picks something from the list

My impression is that customizing the airport is breaking/ignoring the scoring system - is it intended that these features collide? Is it an either or between these two?
It's like airbadger and couger stated before: the user has to edit the airport config in advance. Somekind of relation between airline and operator (like you described) is needed.

[virtuali]

My impression is that customizing the airport is breaking/ignoring the scoring system - is it intended that these features collide?

No, it doesn't. Unless, of course, the thing you customized is precisely the operator. But in that case, you would only get ONE operator ( the one you chose ), with no menu choice. That's intended, and it's precisely done ( and it's the only way to ), let users override the rules system.

- rules files not modified (deleted them and did a live update, just in case something else did)

There can be two rules files, the one in %APPDATA% ( created only when you add a new custom texture for a new operator ) is never touched by the Live Update, and by default doesn't have any rules, so it's not doing anything, but if you add rules to it, it will overwrite the same rule on the stock file in the GSX install folder. So, if you modified this a long time ago, it's still there, and it will never be removed or changed, even if you reinstall GSX. Check if you have that one.

[Fragtality]

No, it doesn't. Unless, of course, the thing you customized is precisely the operator. But in that case, you would only get ONE operator ( the one you chose ), with no menu choice. That's intended, and it's precisely done ( and it's the only way to ), let users override the rules system.

But how can it be then, that GSX does not score DLH or Fraport higher and makes an "equal choice" between all available operators and might also choose TAP, SAS or AEE? (see my descriptions under customization - even when I start with default/internal configuration and modify only the airline codes, it is happening)

There can be two rules files, the one in %APPDATA% ( created only when you add a new custom texture for a new operator ) is never touched by the Live Update, and by default doesn't have any rules, so it's not doing anything, but if you add rules to it, it will overwrite the same rule on the stock file in the GSX install folder. So, if you modified this a long time ago, it's still there, and it will never be removed or changed, even if you reinstall GSX. Check if you have that one.

The whole installation is only a few days old (tried to clean everything before), so an old "residue" is likely not the case.
But I've searched for "rules" in appdata\virtuali: I have only rules.cfg files for jetwaylogos (GSX\texture\jetwaylogo\texture.xxxx\rules.cfg). There is no texture/rules.cfg for Fraport or EDDF. Only for Lufthansa and all 3 are basically empty (just an entry like "[Airline_Lufthansa_Yellow]" e.g.)

[virtuali]

But how can it be then, that GSX does not score DLH or Fraport higher and makes an "equal choice" between all available operators and might also choose TAP, SAS or AEE?

The thing is, it doesn't do that. As I've said, I tried it, and I get Fraport automatically, because is the only operator with a score of 4 at EDDF.

I have only rules.cfg files for jetwaylogos (GSX\texture\jetwaylogo\texture.xxxx\rules.cfg)

And do any of these specify EDDF ?

[Fragtality]

The thing is, it doesn't do that. As I've said, I tried it, and I get Fraport automatically, because is the only operator with a score of 4 at EDDF.

I believe you that it *should not* do it, but sorry, it *does do* that. I have given you many examples?! Did you test with a customization in place?
I've tested it also, the only time Fraport is choosen automatically is when there is no customization. As soon as the airlinecodes are altered (even through GSX UI) and even when _FRA and FRAPORT is added there also, GSX scoring gets irrelevant, meaning it chooses something out of the list.
I've tested something else also: I now edited the rules_handling.cfg and added EDDF as icaoprefix for [LH]. Nothing changes, even though DLH should be scored higher now, GSX will just choose something equally from the list!
But when I remove the all airlinecodes for that gate again, I get a choice between Lufthansa and Fraport (because both score higher now as expected through my customization of the handling rules).
So sorry for me it is very clear: All that scoring is completely ignored as soon as the user customizes the airline code. It is just like that. The big question is now: is it something with my installation, is it intended behaviour or is it a bug?

And do any of these specify EDDF ?

No, I've searched through all of them. No hits for "EDDF" or "Fraport".

[Fragtality]

Update:

Customization DOES brake scoring. Proof is given by yourself: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,14732.0.html and the manual.
So essentially we both forgot to read properly ... me the manual and you my answers. 
Also, I didn't expect that cartayna (given all the dedication he put in creating his configs) was ignoring the / didn't know the behaviour of GSX when the airline code (which really means operator code) is changed.

We're back to the point for feature requests:
A) Don't call this option Airline Code, please rename it, it is just confusing (proof: this thread). When it is about choosing preferred operators, maybe call it "Preferred Operators".
B) Please add a system which makes a relationship between airline and operator choice (like you described).
C) If B will not be added, please review if there is some kind of way to alter the operator codes AND have that scoring system. Maybe something like "Use Scoring System for the configured Operators".

And it was no joke when I wrote that I even would help coding to make B (or at leas C) possible.