Just want the pushback to work like it did

[Fludo]

As it says in the title, now that I've run the latest update, it doesn't show the coualt error but the pushback logic is all messed up with weird paths and turns.
For instance, last week I edited a pushback for a 777F stand in SEQM airport, it did run smooth after having to edit it.
I am now on the exact same stand with the exact same customization and surprise, the pushback makes silly paths and unreal turns.

I am really tired of this lottery everytime I update, I just want the pushback to work like it did before all this new features were rushly implemented before the new competition product launched.

Personally, I couldn't care less about PBR making the vehicles all shiny and brownish or voices with accents, some of them are nice additions but at what cost..

I purchased GSX I for pushback and ground ops and GSX II for the jetways and passengers, I was indeed very satisfied with what I purchased but everytime a new feature is added something is messed up.

Could we please go back to the same product we purchased? Or at least give the option to go back to that version..

Thank you.

[virtuali]

As it says in the title, now that I've run the latest update, it doesn't show the coualt error but the pushback logic is all messed up with weird paths and turns.

The logic is not "messed up". It now finally works perfectly, and it's much easier to create a custom pushback now.

For instance, last week I edited a pushback for a 777F stand in SEQM airport, it did run smooth after having to edit it. I am now on the exact same stand with the exact same customization and surprise, the pushback makes silly paths and unreal turns.

That's because a custom pushback made with the old logic will likely have to be changed and, in most of the case, you'll find a custom pushback is not even required now. What happens if you reset that parking and use the default pushback ? Is GSX able to do it automatically with Left/Right and no customization ?

If not, and that parking required special care that couldn't be solved with the automatic Left/Right strategy, try to redo it now, and you'll find it to be way easier, logic and reliable.

I am really tired of this lottery everytime I update, I just want the pushback to work like it did before all this new features were rushly implemented before the new competition product launched.

The Pushback now works better than it ever was.

Personally, I couldn't care less about PBR making the vehicles all shiny and brownish

Vehicles are neither "all shiny" and surely are not "browish", they are just realistic and miles ahead they ever were before.

or voices with accents, some of them are nice additions but at what cost..

The cost is free, of course. And the new puhsback works so obviously better, than I couldn't imagine anybody in his right mind ever wanting it to be as if was before.

[Fludo]

That's because a custom pushback made with the old logic will likely have to be changed and, in most of the case, you'll find a custom pushback is not even required now. What happens if you reset that parking and use the default pushback ? Is GSX able to do it automatically with Left/Right and no customization ?

Before writing of course I tried both, re-customizing pushback and resetting the parking position (it means the time I spent customizing last week was wasted, again). None of the options improved anything, reseting actually ended up with the plane on the grass.

If not, and that parking required special care, try to redo it now, and you'll find it to be way easier, logic and reliable.

The Pushback now works better than it ever was.

Is this serious? I can say that pushback for small airplanes has been improved over the last version, which was completely messed up (see several posts from several users complaining about it). Better than ever, really?

Vehicles are neither "all shiny" and surely are not "browish", they are just realistic and miles ahead they ever were before.

I can tell they're much more detailed but PBR in P3D simply looks wrong, specially when all the other textures around are not PBR, would be nice to be able to choose. Anyway, this is a minor problem compared to the pushback ones, those really impact the whole simming experience.

The cost is free, of course.

The cost is not free, the cost is many hours wasted trying to figure out every update and turnarounds over many bugs reported in this forum.
As much as one can appreciate your effort to constantly try to improve the product, I think we should be able to choose if we want to experiment with the new features that roll-out periodically. Do you test those updates or are we supposed to be the beta testers?

I know other developers that would test their products very thoroughly before they release them, I don't see how you can do that if you're rolling out updates almost weekly. I would suggest quality over quantity.

And the new puhsback works so obviously better, than I couldn't imagine anybody in his right mind ever wanting it to be as if was before.

I will ignore the fact that you suggested that I am not in my right mind.

[virtuali]

Before writing of course I tried both, re-customizing pushback and resetting the parking position (it means the time I spent customizing last week was wasted, again). None of the options improved anything, reseting actually ended up with the plane on the grass.

You first said your existing custom pushback didn't work, and that's to be expected. You are now saying you tried redoing it, but I still find difficult to believe you cannot create one, and how you haven't noticed how much better and easier it is now.

Is this serious? I can say that pushback for small airplanes has been improved over the last version, which was completely messed up (see several posts from several users complaining about it). Better than ever, really?

Of course it is, have you tried reading the updated manual ?

I can tell they're much more detailed but PBR in P3D simply looks wrong, specially when all the other textures around are not PBR, would be nice to be able to choose. Anyway, this is a minor problem compared to the pushback ones, those really impact the whole simming experience.

PBR in P3D looks just fine. Unless, of course, you installed shader mods, which will usually ruin everything.

The cost is not free, the cost is many hours wasted trying to figure out every update and turnarounds over many bugs reported in this forum.

You mean our working hours to provide a free update that has fixed each and every bug ever reported ?

Do you test those updates or are we supposed to be the beta testers?

We tested it a lot now, and it's clearly so much better, and has fixed all the issue we had in lots of places. But of course, as usual, we always take each and ever report into consideration.

For example, you said you edited a pushback for a 777F stand in SEQM airport. What airport ? Default or 3rd party ? Which stand ? What kind of pushback you were trying to do ?

Provide all these info, so I could try it, see if it's really impossible to do a working pushback there, and understand why. The issue is, I haven't tried THAT airport but, at our own KLAX, which has some of the most cramped and difficult parking out there, there wasn't a single gate in which I couldn't create a proper pushback for.

That's why I find your comments strange, to say the last.

Awaiting your report about that stand at SEQM.

[Fludo]

Hello Umberto,

Apologies for my manners in the previous posts, I will try to explain myself better.

The problem that I'm trying to bring up is that in the past, 90% of the postion's pushback worked fine just as default and now it seems to be the contrary.
I have to edit them and check if pushback works correctly in advance just in case, I unfortunately don't have many hours to sim per week, therefore, "wasting" time having to edit each pushback when previously it wasn't necessary really bothers me.

As an example, I've done a simple video trying to show what I explained about SEQM pushback in 777F. I have tried to show the 3 different steps I now have to go through for every position I use:

1- Pushback customization: As you will see in the video, the airplane starts the turn too late, therefore overshooting the centerline and having to readjust making an exagerated an unreal path. I have looked for real pushback videos just in case and also found one of a 787 doing the pushback with GSX's previous versions without that issue.

 -Real 777 pushback -->

 -GSX's previous versions pushback -->

2- Reseting position and default pushback: After reseting the entire parking position, the pushback shows the same behaviour as with the custom pushback.

3- Quickedit pushback: This one looks like to most realistic path for me of the three after having adjusted it, it does make a strange movement in the middle of the pushback but I'd still say this one is the best.
    Problems: One has to edit each and everyone of the positions it's going to use + If one wants the aircraft facing another direction has to re-edit the pushback + that smooth path and without strange movements in the
    middle is what I was used to with GSX and without the need of manual editing.

I hope this is somewhat useful to improve in the future or look forward to a solution I might have missed in the manual.

Thank you for your time.

Link for video download --> https://we.tl/t-Jbv5LpzZPK

[virtuali]

As an example, I've done a simple video trying to show what I explained about SEQM pushback in 777F. I have tried to show the 3 different steps I now have to go through for every position I use:

1- Pushback customization: As you will see in the video, the airplane starts the turn too late, therefore overshooting the centerline and having to readjust making an exagerated an unreal path. I have looked for real pushback videos just in case and also found one of a 787 doing the pushback with GSX's previous versions without that issue.

Sorry, but these videos doesn't provide any help, because the one from the previous GSX supposedly working "better", was made a Chicago O'Hare so, fact the GSX was previously able to automatically pushback a 777 at O'Hare, doesn't help in any way with your claim the new version cannot do that at SEQM.

2- Reseting position and default pushback: After reseting the entire parking position, the pushback shows the same behaviour as with the custom pushback.

3- Quickedit pushback: This one looks like to most realistic path for me of the three after having adjusted it, it does make a strange movement in the middle of the pushback but I'd still say this one is the best.

I see in your video you customized the pushback at SEQM, and you used Snap mode. Snap mode is UNCHANGED in this update, is still using the previous algorithm, the new one is used *only* in Free mode ( Snap OFF ) or QuickEdit, or when there's no customization ( default Left/Right ). This means, if the current version cannot pushback correctly in Snap mode here, the previous version couldn't either.

However, I think I found what the problem might be: when you pressed the Reset button, the custom Pushback didn't reset! See you still had the Lat/Lon coordinates, even after pressing the Reset button ? That's why your 2nd try was the same as the 1st one: you were still using the custom pushback in Snap mode, instead of the new automatic system, which works like the QuickEdit.

We'll check this, because the Reset button in supposed to reset the whole parking including any custom pushback, in the meantime, you can do the following to really reset to default:

- Manually delete the Lat Lon (an Heading, if it's there) fields, leaving only a blank space, keep the Snap on, and press Apply.

OR

- If you don't have other customization you care for that airport, just reset the whole airport, by selecting the topmost node that says "Airport" and press Reset, so it will reset the whole airport to default, removing your .INI file for it.

 Problems: One has to edit each and everyone of the positions it's going to use + If one wants the aircraft facing another direction has to re-edit the pushback + that smooth path and without strange movements in the     middle is what I was used to with GSX and without the need of manual editing.

The reality is exactly the opposite: the new system works better with NO previous customization. Your example already had a customization, which is probably not needed anymore. The new default, is exactly like the QuickEdit you liked!!

[Fludo]

Hello Umberto,

Thank you for your answer.

Sorry, but these videos doesn't provide any help, because the one from the previous GSX supposedly working "better", was made a Chicago O'Hare so, fact the GSX was previously able to automatically pushback a 777 at O'Hare, doesn't help in any way with your claim the new version cannot do that at SEQM.

I think it does, as it shows how your software was perfectly capable of doing a nice pushback curve with default setting, I experienced it myself in many airports and with many different aircrafts.
The behaviour shown in the custom pushback mode is not exclusive of a particular stand at SEQM, I did another quick video to show you how the same behaviour is experience in T2G EDDM stand 216. (I can do other videos of other airports and stands if you like).

However, I think I found what the problem might be: when you pressed the Reset button, the custom Pushback didn't reset! See you still had the Lat/Lon coordinates, even after pressing the Reset button ? That's why your 2nd try was the same as the 1st one: you were still using the custom pushback in Snap mode, instead of the new automatic system, which works like the QuickEdit.
We'll check this, because the Reset button in supposed to reset the whole parking including any custom pushback,...

Thank your for acknowledging that, I did as you suggested and the pushback worked flawlessly (see video). That's what I found strange when I was initially testing, that the same behaviour was found for custom pushback and reseted position.

As a conclusion, reseting the pushback manually to default is what showed best results for me and was also more practical, If you could make the reset button work that would be nice.

As a suggestion, check the attached video and see how custom pushback doesn't work perfectly in my case (centerline overshoot with subsequent need to readjust), the video shows the trajectory with standard pushback and with the custom one, it may have room for improving.

Thanks again.

Video --> https://we.tl/t-fE5mtTOEPE

[virtuali]

I think it does, as it shows how your software was perfectly capable of doing a nice pushback curve with default setting, I experienced it myself in many airports and with many different aircrafts.

No, it doesn't, because it was a different airport. As I've said, fact the GSX was previously able to automatically pushback a 777 at O'Hare, doesn't help in any way with your claim the new version cannot do that at SEQM.

GSX is now MORE capable of doing a nice pushback curve without any editing, but it always wasn't before so, it's an obvious improvement.

The behaviour shown in the custom pushback mode is not exclusive of a particular stand at SEQM, I did another quick video to show you how the same behaviour is experience in T2G EDDM stand 216. (I can do other videos of other airports and stands if you like).

Again: was this pushback customized ? I'm fairly sure it was. And, as I've said, if it was customized in "Snap" mode, NOTHING has changed in this update. If it was customized in "Non-Snap" mode, it will likely have to be edited again, and if that parking didn't really required a custom Pushback, I'm fairly sure it will work just fine with no customization.

Thank your for acknowledging that, I did as you suggested and the pushback worked flawlessly (see video). That's what I found strange when I was initially testing, that the same behaviour was found for custom pushback and reseted position.

Of course it works flawlessly now: that was my point, it works MUCH better with no customization required now. The customization is now required only if you want to control the curve more precisely OR it's a difficult spot that cannot be done automatically, for example the first parking of a closed terminal.

As a conclusion, reseting the pushback manually to default is what showed best results for me and was also more practical, If you could make the reset button work that would be nice.

Yes, of course we'll do that.

As a suggestion, check the attached video and see how custom pushback doesn't work perfectly in my case (centerline overshoot with subsequent need to readjust), the video shows the trajectory with standard pushback and with the custom one, it may have room for improving.

I think I haven't clarified this well enough:

You used SNAP mode

SNAP mode is unchanged from the previous version and DOES NOT use the NEW algorithm. Snap mode, by definition (that's what it name means), relies on the AFCAD nodes themselves to create a path so, whether their placement is enough or not to allow a certain airplane to make a good curve, is not certain and it's not under GSX control.

The new algorithm main advantage is that it doesn't use/rely on ANY of the nodes in the underlying AFCAD and (at least for the standard Left/Right pushback) it can work even without any intermediates nodes. But it will work ONLY if you customize a Parking with Snap DISABLED ( Free Mode ), or in QuickEdit, which is always non-Snapped and it's the new default for automatic Left/Right pushback if there's NO customization of any kind.

But Snap mode still has its utility, because it can be used to create long and straight paths following the AFCAD lines with minimal effort, while all the free mode are better used when you don't *want* to be constrained by the AFCAD.