Author Topic: Bagage loaders issue  (Read 5424 times)

renzomarcus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Bagage loaders issue
« on: May 12, 2019, 07:19:47 pm »
Hi,

I have noticed in some cases the bagage trucks take a very weird route from their parking position to the cargo door.
Sometimes it happens, but on the same stand it could also not happen... No idea what's causing this. See attached 2 screenshots of 2 parking positions containing the route they take.
Thanks for your help!

Kind regards,
Renzo

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51238
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 11:20:17 am »
Quote
I have noticed in some cases the bagage trucks take a very weird route from their parking position to the cargo door.

That's likely because the parking is too small and the vehicles *by default* are spaced depending on the parking size.

Quote
Sometimes it happens, but on the same stand it could also not happen

That's because you don't always park in the exact same spot and/or with the same airplane.

I have noticed in some cases the bagage trucks take a very weird route from their parking position to the cargo door.

That's why GSX has a customization page, which allows you to override the parking size, in case it's too small for the parking, or set the vehicle starting position in a location more suited to that parking.

airbadger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 12:56:09 pm »
Why does the size of the parking spot get to determine whether or not the baggage vehicles drive under the airplane? Is there not a better way to code this? I literally can't remember the last time those vehicles *didn't* drive under the plane. It happens everywhere. At one point I (and other users) thought it was a bug: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,19625.0.html

Beat578

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 02:22:57 pm »
The Problem is: It's coded in the AFCAD, thats not made by virtualy but by the developer. Still, the chance that you can use the airport without having to programm everything from the beginning first (but with minor tweaking with just one button) is bigger. Imagine: If you don't use the AFCAD, you have to place every car, everything for each spot manually first. So you can just click. "Adjust to my plane" and off you go. What's more comfortable?
I think it's a compromise, but a very good one.
Beat578

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51238
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 02:23:58 pm »
Why does the size of the parking spot get to determine whether or not the baggage vehicles drive under the airplane?

There's always an obvious reason why we do things in some way, and it's not possible to make a solution that would work everywhere AND won't require at the same time users customizing everything.

The parking size should affect the initial DEFAULT vehicle placement, because if it didn't, the opposite effect would happen: vehicles would start INSIDE the building, so users would ALSO thing "it's a GSX bug", but of course was the opposite: a parking too large OR GSX not taking into account the parking size.

So, using the Left/Right radius is just a FIRST customization option at your disposal, if you don't want to adjust all the individual vehicles start positions. Adjusting the individual starting positions, instead, it's the best/more realistic option, but of course it takes longer.

Quote
Is there not a better way to code this?

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Which data to take into account to decide the default placement, or the actual path finding ?

Yes, we might decide to change the default starting placement and ignore the parking size, using a fixed or minimum size. Of course, instead of vehicles driving under the plane when the parking size is too small, you might see vehicles starting from the inside of the buildings, so you'll only have to decide which is the less annoying "bug". Which again, is not really a bug, but a problem with the scenery parking size too small and/or your parking position on ground.

The actual path finding works correctly, but it cannot always solve impossible situations, because it must fit a curve based on the starting position, the door position and the vehicle axle length (distance between its front/rear wheels), and in some cases they are just mathematically impossible to solve without having the curve reverse on itself.

But again, this CAN be fixed by adjusting the vehicle starting position, to give it enough space to calculate an approach curve, based on all those constrains.

Quote
I literally can't remember the last time those vehicles *didn't* drive under the plane. It happens everywhere.

It doesn't happen everywhere. Only at those airports when the parking size is too small which hasn't been adjusted. And, in your first post you said "I have noticed in some cases the baggage trucks take a very weird route". So, it first was "in some cases", now it's "everywhere" ?

In the thread you linked, some users reported it only happens at the destination airport. Is this your case as well ? If yes, please confirm it, because it didn't seem so from your initial report.

If this happens both at the starting and destination airport, then it's surely caused by both airports having the vehicle positions not adjusted. If, instead, it only happens at the destination airport and it's fixed by restarting Couatl without moving the airplane from the parked position, then it's something we should check but, right now, nobody was ever able to produce a reproducible report, indicating ALL the data I required in that post.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 02:36:36 pm by virtuali »

renzomarcus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2019, 03:50:03 pm »
Hi Umberto,

Thanks a lot for getting back to me.
Whilst I understand your point, I fail to see why the size of the gate determines the route the bagage loader will take.
It doesn't matter if the gate is sized small or large, point A (the parking position) will remain location at the same coordinates and so does point B (the loading position).
GSX should simply calculate the shortest route.

Quote
But again, this CAN be fixed by adjusting the vehicle starting position, to give it enough space to calculate an approach curve, based on all those constrains.
I understand the above, however as you can see in my initial post with the attached pictures, the loaders are quite a substantial distance from the aircraft, which should allow for a proper calculation without curves that are too tight.

Kind regards,
Renzo

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51238
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2019, 11:13:53 pm »
Whilst I understand your point, I fail to see why the size of the gate determines the route the bagage loader will take.

You couldn't just trust my explanation that IT DOES ?

Quote
It doesn't matter if the gate is sized small or large, point A (the parking position) will remain location at the same coordinates and so does point B (the loading position). GSX should simply calculate the shortest route.

You don't seem to understand: it's NOT a "simple" issue of calculating the shortest route! That would be TRIVAL in fact but, of course, it won't work. At all. I'll try to explain it, again:

What GSX needs to do, is to first place the vehicles. They are either placed on a default position, based on the parking size, or in a custom position you customized manually. However, this placement doesn't know *anything* about their destination, because vehicles are many times placed BEFORE you stop the airplane.

Yes, of course, if we waited for the airplane to be parked and THEN calculate the starting position of the vehicles based on the airplane (instead of the parking), we could easily create routes that always worked, but then you would both lose the ability to specify a parking soon or even before landing AND the vehicles would pop instantly in front of you AFTER you park, which highly unrealistic.

That's why we only have the parking to work with, and the airplane is a variable that we cannot fully control because it depends by a combination of:

- the airplane door position

- the airplane parking position the moment you stop the engine and put brakes on.


And no, it's not "the shortest route". We must calculate a Bezier Curve which would allow the vehicle to do a SMOOTH turn, with no hard corners, taking into account:

- The vehicle wheel base

- The vehicle stopping distance from the airplane, which depends on the airplane door's HEIGHT as well (the higher a stair is, the further back the vehicle must go)

- The fact the vehicle will have to end up with an heading which will be exactly perpendicular to the airplane door HEADING

Sometimes, it's just mathematically impossible to fit such curve, so the spline will turn around itself, and the vehicle will too.

Again, in order to be sure this is something we can or should fix, I would need a PROPER reproducible report, including ALL the data I listed many times, for example in the following lines of this post.


Quote
I understand the above, however as you can see in my initial post with the attached pictures, the loaders are quite a substantial distance from the aircraft, which should allow for a proper calculation without curves that are too tight.

It's not possible to say by just looking at the picture. I would have to check ALL the following:

- The airport used

- The gate used

- The eventual GSX customization made for that airport

- The airplane used

- The eventual GSX customization made for that airplane.

- The precise, exact coordinates of were you parked.


And, if this problem happens *everytime* (with the same gate/airport/airplane, parked in exactly the same position), or ONLY on arrival, after having used GSX on departure. THIS makes all the difference in the world because, if it's only happening on arrival, is a certain kind of problem but, if it's happening everytime, I'm 100% sure it can be fixed by customizing the starting position of the vehicle. Assuming, of course, the airplane configuration is correct.

renzomarcus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 11:44:13 pm »
Umberto,

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! It is greatly appreciated.
I will monitor it for the time being and should I notice any patterns, report back with all the relevant information.

Kind regards,
Renzop

airbadger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 02:39:46 am »
It is definitely bugged.

Here's a screenshot of me deboarding after taxiing in *without* restarting Couatl. Note the front loader driving under the plane.

https://i.imgur.com/YrZsqEw.jpg

Here's the starting position. Seems like plenty of space to maneuver.

https://i.imgur.com/FHzHwmF.jpg

Then I restarted Couatl and it worked fine.

So you can meticulously set up every single parking spot to exact specifications needed and it'll still bug out.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 10:50:02 am by virtuali »

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51238
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2019, 10:50:54 am »
Here's a screenshot of me deboarding after taxiing in *without* restarting Couatl. Note the front loader driving under the plane.

Have you called selected the gate in GSX while still in flight, or after thouchdown ?

airbadger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 05:17:12 pm »
Here's a screenshot of me deboarding after taxiing in *without* restarting Couatl. Note the front loader driving under the plane.

Have you called selected the gate in GSX while still in flight, or after thouchdown ?

After touch down.

airbadger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2019, 09:24:30 pm »
Are there any plans to improve the baggage loaders? I was surprised to find them driving under my plane at FSDT's KORD V2 - I kind of figured GSX + ORD would be pretty much seamless.

https://streamable.com/fjvb0

On a positive note, I'm glad I picked up ORD during the sale - it's way better in terms of FPS/detail vs. the other version that was released this year.



virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51238
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2019, 09:33:42 pm »
Are there any plans to improve the baggage loaders? I was surprised to find them driving under my plane at FSDT's KORD V2 - I kind of figured GSX + ORD would be pretty much seamless.

It surely is. Please confirm if this is again happening only after landing, but not after takeoff.

airbadger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2019, 09:40:09 pm »
Are there any plans to improve the baggage loaders? I was surprised to find them driving under my plane at FSDT's KORD V2 - I kind of figured GSX + ORD would be pretty much seamless.

It surely is. Please confirm if this is again happening only after landing, but not after takeoff.

Same situation as before... I land, then I’m selecting my gate as I’m taxiing.

virtuali

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51238
    • VIRTUALI Sagl
Re: Bagage loaders issue
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2019, 09:44:25 pm »
I land, then I’m selecting my gate as I’m taxiing.

So I assume if you park at the *same* parking, with the *same* airplane, in the *same* position, and call the *same* services, they behave correctly, if you start a flight there ?