KMEM Stuttering

[virtuali]

Should i test with HT off and AM=14?

Doesn't hurt trying, that's considered to be the best setting, on a Quad Core, with HT off. But please note, even the best Affinity Mask setting will only be useful to reduce pauses caused by the allocation of time between the sim and other Windows processes.

There will ALWAYS a very small pause when creating a visible object, this is something that happens IN the sim, so no Affinity Mask setting will affect his. The pre-rendered frame might, though.

There just nothing we can do about the cost of creating an object, only LM (I doubt this would be ever fixed in FSX) might be do something about it, for example trying to multi-thread in some way the actual objects creation, which now are able to stall the sim, if only for a brief moment. And yes, it HAS been reported to LM, so maybe they might be able to do something about it.

[garymcginnis]

Thank you! My feelings exactly. I can't blame FSDT for thinking they hit another out of the park with MEM but the fact is they didn't, yet. But they still could with fixing this stutter! There is stuttering and whether it wants to be acknowledged or not is on them.

Is it a nice scenery? Yes. Is it overkill? Yes. Is all the extra "features" causing these issues? Posssibly. Is the "four times previous products" actually needed? No, especially in the 32bit platform we still operate with.

I can go on but it just is upsetting that there is reported stuttering at this airport only and it won't be looked at in greater detail. I've actually considered switching back to BluePrint and am seriously watching the new KORD offering vs the FSDT reboot if the "it's ok stuttering" is going to be the new direction at FSDT. The fact is this scenery is a nice start but it can be fixed.

My 2 cents and they'll probably fall on deaf ears.

[virtuali]

There is stuttering and whether it wants to be acknowledged or not is on them.

That's not the case. We acknowledged it and explained the reasoning behind it. As you said yourself, an "almost not noticeable" stuttering is entirely within our design parameters and goals.

Is it a nice scenery? Yes.

Up to the point that now users are now complaining that our older products don't look like KMEM.

Is it overkill? Yes. Is all the extra "features" causing these issues? Possibly.

I'm sure we could investigate, maybe we can even have a Teamviewer session so you can show it to me. Maybe we could test different configurations to at least understand what is the source of it and, eventually, add a switch to remove stuff.

However, I'm not even sure that something that is "almost not noticeable" live, would even register, or be confused in the general slowness/stuttering of a remote connection.

Is the "four times previous products" actually needed? No, especially in the 32bit platform we still operate with.

The issue is, even if WE HAVE A TRIAL VERSION, what really sells a scenery are screenshots and videos. So, regardless of all our best effort to allow users to see, on their own system, how the scenery *performs*, they still rely on screenshots and videos, and 2nd hand opinions, and decide to purchase depending how the scenery LOOKS LIKE.

As I've said, KMEM using the same object density of KLAX, which is a COMPACT and CRAMMED airport, with lots of stuff in a very confined space, that doesn't take much effort to look "busy", would looked like to be almost empty. That's why it was needed.

I've actually considered switching back to BluePrint

You will not switch back to 1990's era graphics, because of an "almost not noticeable" stuttering won't happen. You are only using this argument to try to make us worry about potentially lost sales. I assure you that lost sales because of a PERCEIVED lack of detail (because the scenery is so vast and with large empty areas) would be much worse.

The TRIAL version, is your friend.

and am seriously watching the new KORD offering vs the FSDT reboot if the "it's ok stuttering" is going to be the new direction at FSDT.

There are people that will tell you that good looks, good fps and some stuttering is an FSDT trademark since many years, since you said yourself you don't have any stuttering on *other* FSDT sceneries, that should be quite telling that, stuttering experiences are highly subjective.

The fact is this scenery is a nice start but it can be fixed.

There's nothing to "fix". We might just add additional options to reduce the detail, maybe.

My 2 cents and they'll probably fall on deaf ears.

Again, a wrong assumption. I have explained you the sound reasoning behind, and why an "almost not noticeable" (YOUR words) stuttering is entirely normal.

Fact you don't want to accept it, doesn't mean WE are "deaf" to your comments. If we were, this topic would have been closed long ago, and I wouldn't take the time to reply to it.

[garymcginnis]

Let me retract my "almost not noticeable" statement. It was made in the hope that even though my computer can power thru it to an "almost not notIceable" level it is still there and is still very noticeable with a hitch every few seconds from 3 miles in. I only said non-noticeable in the hopes that this wouldn't have been narrowed in on and instead the real issues addressed. Plus I was being a little generous with my description.... if it was truly "not notIceable" then I obviously wouldn't have posted about it. In fact with GSYNC it might even stand out somewhat more compared to VSYNC users.

I appreciate the quality of this product but I (and others as well as evidence by this topic) really believe there is an issue outside of what you think is "normal" and I simply hope you will take note... which in your last comment sounded like. So positive start there!

Thanks

[virtuali]

is still very noticeable with a hitch every few seconds from 3 miles in.

Are these "few seconds" between pauses a random time, or are they *exactly* 4 seconds, each time ?

[HighlanderOne]

With all due respect virtuali... I have pretty much all your sceneries and they all run stutter free. As everyone in this thread has been stating... KMEM has obvious stutters on approach including myself as I have stated in a previous post some time ago. There is something clearly causing these stutters. Something that may have been done differently compared to all your previous products that is causing this. I don't really know. You need to be forthcoming with your customers. As it stands... I am unable to use KMEM as a result of the stutters on approach. When landed... all is well. I am trying to find a way to put this without any intention to offend you.... but your work is fantastic without doubt.... though I believe at this stage myself and some other customers are reluctant to purchase future products due to inaction on your behalf to at least try and look into what may be causing the issue since its not happening at your other products. A demo of 5 minutes still would not allow enough time to fly out from the airport and back in to land to see if it stutters. Hence why there's a chance I would not go out again and purchase another FSDT sceney even based on the demo which I downloaded and tested first. I love your products... but in future I will have to base my purchase on feedback. Again.... not here to offend or defame FSDT. Just posting on behalf of other customers here experiencing the same issue i am having. Thanks for all your hard work.

[garymcginnis]

is still very noticeable with a hitch every few seconds from 3 miles in.

Are these "few seconds" between pauses a random time, or are they *exactly* 4 seconds, each time ?

Both. If that makes sense. If I pitch up on the glide slope it happens if it's a "drastic" pitch change as well as every 7-10 seconds or so (I don't time it but it is a noticeable repetition).

Again my computer is powerful enough to make it usable but it's detracting from an otherwise butter flight. I built a long list of FDX flights just for this scenery and am enjoying them immensely but yes I've considered going back to BLUEPRINT because I'm willing to give up on the eye candy for smooth. Not trying to make an inflammatory comment with that just using it to show how detracting it really is since you said it in a previous reply.

Thank you for actually working with us on this now.

[virtuali]

With all due respect virtuali... I have pretty much all your sceneries and they all run stutter free.

You just made my point, thank you. If you read some forums, you would think that ALL FSDT sceneries are "known" (that's wrong, but let's assume it's not) to have stuttering, because of the special way we do custom memory management.

Your experience is different, and this can only prove that either:

1) No system perform the same

AND

2) Not everyone has the same tolerance to stuttering

AND

3) Not everything you read on forums is true

The truth is probably a combination of #1, #2 and #3.

KMEM has obvious stutters on approach including myself as I have stated in a previous post some time ago.

We WERE discussing about a "almost not noticeable" stutters. Now, as I've expected (otherwise it would haven been impossible to continue this discussion), this version has changed, but I'm still quite confused about WHAT we should look for.

There's STILL quite a bit of slack between "almost not noticeable" and "obvious"...

Something that may have been done differently compared to all your previous products that is causing this. I don't really know. You need to be forthcoming with your customers.

We have been as forthcoming as can be, clearly saying that:

1) KMEM is way more dense (up to a point that it WONT EVER FIT IN MEMORY if we tried to get rid of stutters altogether, by loading everything at once) than anything we (or everybody else) ever made

2) That we value fps, reliability and protection against OOMs, ABOVE everything else. You might agree or not with this choice, but it's our own design choice.

As it stands... I am unable to use KMEM as a result of the stutters on approach. When landed... all is well.

Which is interesting, since the scenery does WAY MORE of the potentially-stuttering inducing memory management when you are on ground!! So, maybe, it's something entirely different, that doesn't have anything to do with it.

inaction on your behalf to at least try and look into what may be causing the issue since its not happening at your other products.

"Inaction" We are discussing it here, for quite a few pages, and I'm TRYING to understand what might be, making questions to affected users and I CLEARLY said that it might be possible we could add options to remove features, once we understand what's might be the cause.

I'm starting to ask question NOW, because when this thread started, other users said the issue was GONE, by setting the pre-rendered frame in the Video card Control Panel.

It's BECAUSE I believe in users reports, that I considered this something that wouldn't need our attention. Another indication that user experiences can be vastly different.

A demo of 5 minutes still would not allow enough time to fly out from the airport and back in to land to see if it stutters.

That's not the case.

If it's true you have stutters at landing, you don't have to START from KMEM to test it. You can start elsehwere, and land there. The 5 minutes only start from the moment you enter in the airport area, about 10 NM out.

I hope you are aware that our 5 minutes Trial doesn't ever expire ? It's just that you cannot fly for more than 5-6 minutes PER-SESSION, but if you restart FSX, you have another Trial period, and so on. It has been designed to allow you for INFINITE tests, with different settings, airplanes, etc.

]Hence why there's a chance I would not go out again and purchase another FSDT sceney even based on the demo which I downloaded and tested first. I love your products... but in future I will have to base my purchase on feedback.

I think the above explanation has clarified this is NOT the case and the Trial can give you ALL the means to base your purchase decision on you OWN experience and NOT of "feedback"

[virtuali]

Both. If that makes sense. If I pitch up on the glide slope it happens if it's a "drastic" pitch change as well as every 7-10 seconds or so (I don't time it but it is a noticeable repetition).

Could you please indicate the precise conditions to replicate it ? Which runway you approached into ? Which airplane ? I'm asking because, I just tried to approach on 18L, using the default 737, and tried to pitch hard up/down on approach, but couldn't see any stutters, and no stutters at regular intervals either.

I built a long list of FDX flights just for this scenery and am enjoying them immensely but yes I've considered going back to BLUEPRINT because I'm willing to give up on the eye candy for smooth. Not trying to make an inflammatory comment with that just using it to show how detracting it really is since you said it in a previous reply.

I'm sorry, but I still believe this is only a sentence intended to provoke some reaction. I really don't believe you are going back to such outdated products, and you don't have to do that: we ARE discussing about this, as you said yourself:

Thank you for actually working with us on this now.

[garymcginnis]

On approach to and during the initial landing on18L/18C/18R (I also landed 36C once in lower vis, so I couldnt tell if it was doing it as much or not becasue of flying the airport but i did notice a few hitches). 27 and 09 on departure about mid-way down (I landed 27 once as well and it did it as well but nearly not as bad). My feeling is its something right in the center of the airport because after landing and rolling down the runways a bit the stutter goes away.

Aircraft: QW757 merged into LDS767, LDS767 and PMDG777.

Also don't be so sure.... you can ask some of my flight sim friends about what I'm willing to do for smooth performance. As long as all the runways are there with correct navaid frequently anything else is just gravey  

[garymcginnis]

Also there is a bug in the FedEx ramp. When I try to use the inner parking spots on taxi in, the airplane bounces. Almost like it hits a wall (I have crash off for vatsim) and when I'm in the PMDG777 I get a ton of EICAS messages and flat tires. So I've been relegated to using the outer stands. Maybe that has something to do with the stuttering issue. Maybe not but I just wanted to pass it along.

Edit: There is a topic on this called "invisible wall"

[virtuali]

Also there is a bug in the FedEx ramp. When I try to use the inner parking spots on taxi in, the airplane bounces. Almost like it hits a wall (I have crash off for vatsim) and when I'm in the PMDG777 I get a ton of EICAS messages and flat tires.

This has been discussed many times, and no, it's not obviously "a bug", it's a feature, which simulates the aircraft bumping over the taxilights or when the apron terrain tiles change material.

We designed it for the default airplanes but, since it might be a bit unpredictable with 3rd party flight models and related systems that might be confused by it, it can be DISABLED using the CTRL+F12 menu, it's the first option, "Disable/Enable Gear Bump"

[garymcginnis]

I have that disabled. Will check to verify. Either way just trouble shooting.

[garymcginnis]

I've switched back to BluePrint for now. I'll be keeping close tabs on if the stutter problem is fixed or not. Fingers crossed 

[virtuali]

I've switched back to BluePrint for now. I'll be keeping close tabs on if the stutter problem is fixed or not. Fingers crossed 

And by doing this, you made the only wrong move you could, since we could have started working together to find it, possibly under Teamviewer, since what you initially called an "almost noticeable" stuttering (which would probably be impossible to perceive in Teamviewer), now was changed into a " very noticeable" stuttering which COULD probably be seen over a remote session.

Unfortunately, if you uninstalled KMEM, there's no way we can even START troubleshooting this or even discuss about fixing it.

Maybe you haven't read my previous posts accurately enough: I took the time to reproduce your flight, and couldn't see ANY stuttering similar to yours, that's why I need to witness it first-hand, so test can be made by selectively remove stuff/features, until the problematic ones are found.