Author Topic: Floating passengers  (Read 3230 times)

virtuali

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2023, 06:59:31 pm »
so these all mean we shall wait for microsoft to fix something?

If you are referring to the maximum Simobject limit, which if surpassed will break the sim, causing Simconnect bad connection, sharp fps drops and invisible airport on arrival, then yes, you must wait for Microsoft to fix it, so I suggest voting the relevant thread here:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/arrival-airports-traffic-and-fps-have-disappeared/552363/21

In the meantime, of course, your best option is to lower the object density, with AI being the biggest contribution. Before a couple of popular AI traffic products came out, in October 2022, nobody even knew about the maximum Simobject limit, GSX was already out by a couple of months, and nobody had a problem with it before.

So yes, Microsoft should fix this issue, which will benefit all add-ons.

Keight

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2023, 07:52:35 pm »
I see but once again I cant lower the AI traffic density as Im flying online and never use offline traffic. Dont know what traffic you are referring to but Im using FSLTL without injector. Im not experiencing any fps drops or having invisible airport. Arriving to the airport I had passengers walking in the air in unknown direction and now they are just simply missing. And it of course breaks FBW GSX integration specifically progressive deboarding. Never noticed it happening on departure. I had no such issues before SU12 and consequent GSX update.

virtuali

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2023, 10:46:20 am »
see but once again I cant lower the AI traffic density as Im flying online and never use offline traffic.

When I said "AI is the biggest contributor", I don't mean it's the ONLY one. If you are using a very dense airport, you might reach the limit even without AI or, with the lowest number of "AI" that are human pilots flying online. They are still Simobjects. Every objects count to the limit.

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Dont know what traffic you are referring to but Im using FSLTL without injector.

Nowhere I said the problem happens ONLY with injection. It might just be more easily to be seen, because users might not realized they need to change the traffic settings on the injector itself, in addition to the traffic density in the simulator. But the limit is the limit, no matter if you reach it by injection or normal traffic generation.

Default ground vehicles servicing AI also contribute to the Simobject limit, and also static airplanes automatically created by the sim ( together with their associated default ground vehicles ) will. Everything counts, you have plenty of places where you can act on the settings to keep the number down.

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Im not experiencing any fps drops or having invisible airport.

Nowhere I said the fps drop or invisible airports would always happen. That's usually the last stage of the problem, and a sure confirmation you are deep in the trouble, but Simconnect erratic data about jetways can come even without the first two effects. My reference to it was simply to tell the issue is far bigger than "just" getting erratic data about Jetways.

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Arriving to the airport I had passengers walking in the air in unknown direction and now they are just simply missing.

In a recent update, we added more checks that, in any case we don't have proper data about jetways, we disable passengers altogether, both because lots of users explicitly asked us to do so, but also so users won't assume it's a "GSX bug" and would recognized it as yet another case of "objects missing" caused by reaching the Simobject limit (same as disappearing airports or objects), so they would look into the real cause of the problem ( too many objects ) instead of being mislead this being a GSX problem.

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And it of course breaks FBW GSX integration specifically progressive deboarding. Never noticed it happening on departure. I had no such issues before SU12 and consequent GSX update.

Not sure what you mean here. In any case where GSX decides to disable passengers that would likely be in the air, because of bad data about jetways, the boarding is STILL happening, just without a passenger, but the LVars that addons can use to check GSX progress will still be set so, even if you don't see anybody, the process will still work  exactly the same.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2023, 10:48:02 am by virtuali »

Keight

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2023, 04:09:42 pm »
When I said "AI is the biggest contributor", I don't mean it's the ONLY one. If you are using a very dense airport, you might reach the limit even without AI or, with the lowest number of "AI" that are human pilots flying online. They are still Simobjects. Every objects count to the limit.
Yeah that is what I said before: either not to use detailed sceneries or not to fly with traffic. and you didnt agree  :)

ok so why there were no such issues before the su12?

virtuali

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2023, 01:36:40 am »
ok so why there were no such issues before the su12?

That's not true. Those issues have been known for many months before SU12, since last October, when a couple of popular AI traffic products using injections came out. Here's the relevant post on the MSFS official forum:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/arrival-airports-traffic-and-fps-have-disappeared/552363

It dates October 2022, with SU10 being the current version back then. Before, nobody really thought there was a maximum Simobject limit, probably inherited from FSX ( which would probably OOM way before reaching that, as a 32 bit app ), it was explicitly added later to the SDK documentation to be 1000 objects in total.



Keight

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2023, 05:55:13 pm »
I never experienced floating pax issues before SU12. And according to the simobject statistics Im not hitting 1000 limit.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 12:10:58 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2023, 12:14:05 pm »
I never experienced floating pax issues before SU12.

That's just because you never used airports in which the problem would likely happen, for example those with double jetways, one animated one static. On such gates, GSX had basically 50% chance to get the right one.

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And according to the simobject statistics Im not hitting 1000 limit.

That's because that page is not showing everything. There's a another diagnostic window in the DevMode which also shows invisible Simbojects and, for example, taking into account all AI in the reality bubble, using an AI traffic product, you can have like 600-700 extra AI you don't see in that other window, which are there nonetheless and do count for the limit.

Keight

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2023, 02:42:37 pm »
Did multiple tests and found interesting observations:
2 flights in a row with turnaround. Offline, no AI traffic, no other addons.

Boarding at origin airport - pax are there.
Deboarding and boarding at destination - pax are there.
Deboarding at origin - no pax.
Restar Couatl, request deboarding again - pax are there.

So if it is related to the simobjects limit:
a) why pax are there on the first leg and are not back from 2nd flight? it is the same airport, the same amount of objects
b) why restarting couatl makes passengers appear again?

upd:
few more tests with complex airports, traffic and bunch of other addons, and turns out there is no issue on the remote stands with bus deboarding. passengers always there and visible. it only happens on jetway stands. one more fact against the simobjects limit theory.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2023, 07:19:44 pm by Keight »

virtuali

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2023, 12:32:10 pm »
it only happens on jetway stands. one more fact against the simobjects limit theory.

Fact it only happens on jetways not being related to Simconnect and the Simobject limit, is you assumption, but that's not the case.

The difference between a normal parking and one with jetways, is that GSX (after SU12) must obtain a list of jetways from the sim, which is made with a Simconnect call, usually a single call will return all jetways at once.

If the object limit is reached, and the Simconnect call to obtain all jetways fails, GSX will try asking for all jetways one by one, and this (on big airports) can take a while. But if the reason for the failure was Simconnect behaving erratically because of the limit reached, even the single calls will fail so, lacking any data about jetways, GSX will revert to simulated passengers.

Restarting Couatl would cause any errors from the previous session to be clear, and with a new connection sometimes Simconnect gets cleared up (possibly because the sim had a chance to remove the extra simobjects in the meantime), which explains why this is fixed by restarting Couatl.

Keight

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Re: Floating passengers
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2023, 05:01:04 pm »
it only happens on jetway stands. one more fact against the simobjects limit theory.
The difference between a normal parking and one with jetways, is that GSX (after SU12) must obtain a list of jetways from the sim, which is made with a Simconnect call, usually a single call will return all jetways at once.
So it does have to do with SU12 changes. Then why do you keep denying when I say I never experienced this issue before SU12?