Author Topic: GSX stops onboard graphics device and crashes P3Dv5HF2  (Read 2186 times)

borisvp

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GSX stops onboard graphics device and crashes P3Dv5HF2
« on: October 27, 2021, 08:50:23 pm »
Hi,

Strange problem. but definitely related to GSX. After starting the pushback process, at some point I get the message that the onboard graphics device (Intel HD630) in my PC has stopped working. I can continue for a while, but the sim crashes during the pushback or immediately after. This is reproducible and independent from the location or aircraft.

The onboard device has a [display.device] entry in the prepar3d.cfg, but is of course not used by the sim; the main GPU is a 1070ti

Does GSX address the onboard graphics in any way? I've heard that this is known bug since one of the last updates - is that so? And if it is, is there a soution - other than deactivating the onboard graphics?

Regards
Boris

virtuali

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Re: GSX stops onboard graphics device and crashes P3Dv5HF2
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2021, 01:46:56 am »
does GSX address the onboard graphics in any way?

You haven't said which version simulator you use.

If you use P3D V4, there is some secondary relationship with GSX and the graphic card, because in P3D V4, GSX uses DirectX for Render to Textures, to create multi-liveries and dynamic text. However, I said "secondary", because nowhere in the GSX code we do a direct reference to a specific card: we just ask a graphic device to the sim. We are aware there are issues with SLI but, I have no idea if the onboard graphic card might cause the same problems as a SLI card. It's not clear from your message if disabling the internal video card fixes the problem. If it does, I think this it the best solution. And, you can also disable Render to Texture in the Addon Manager menu so, DirectX won't be used anymore, but this will cause all logo and all font rendering to go blank.

This is about P3D V4. In P3D V5, it's completely different, there is a separate version of the Addon Manager .DLL that is specific to P3D V5, that doesn't include ANY DirectX code so, it doesn't have the slightest relationship with the video card and it cannot access it, not even by mistake (the DX code is just not there).

So, it's simply impossible that issues/crashes related to the video card can possibly be "caused" by GSX. But of course, on P3D V5, there's a much strict VRAM requirement, due to DirectX 12 that, usually, when it's short on VRAM, will just crash the video driver.

borisvp

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Re: GSX stops onboard graphics device and crashes P3Dv5HF2
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2021, 08:05:59 pm »
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You haven't said which version simulator you use.
Well, it's in my topic  ;) P3Dv5HF2

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So, it's simply impossible that issues/crashes related to the video card can possibly be "caused" by GSX.
How would you explain then that this issue always and only happens after I have activated the GSX pushback funtion? And that has not happened until about a month ago.

See, I've heard that GSX does have this problem since one of the last updates due to some code change, and all I do is trying to figure out how to solve it. Disabling the onboard video does work but is not a permanent option; I need it for my secondary monitors.

Maybe it can be solved with the next update.


virtuali

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Re: GSX stops onboard graphics device and crashes P3Dv5HF2
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2021, 12:10:23 pm »
How would you explain then that this issue always and only happens after I have activated the GSX pushback funtion? And that has not happened until about a month ago.

Now I realized you used P3D V5, it's 100% sure the problem doesn't have anything to do with DirectX, which might have some relationship with the usage of the 2nd video card. This might have been an issue only with P3D V4 but, as I've said, there's just nothing in the code that even touched DirectX in the V5 version of the software.

So, it'likely it's "just"a problem of GSX now using SLIGHTLY more VRAM than the previous version, due to the addition of multi-liveries for all vehicles and jetways, that's the ONLY change in the P3D V5.

If you were already *close* to the maximum VRAM usage, because of your settings, it's possible that the extra VRAM taken by the jetways and the vehicles might just be enough to tip the balance and cause a crash and, it's very well known VRAM exhaustion is an issue in P3D V5 even without considering GSX.

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See, I've heard that GSX does have this problem since one of the last updates due to some code change, and all I do is trying to figure out how to solve it.

I don't know where you "heard" this, since nothing in the GSX code changed, other than the addition of multi-liveries so no, nothing in the recent GSX update caused this, other than adding multi-liveries in V5.

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Disabling the onboard video does work but is not a permanent option; I need it for my secondary monitors.

It's not entirely clear but, do you mean you TRIED disabling the onboard video and the problem went away ?

If yes, considering that nothing in the whole GSX code in P3D V5 knows anything about the video device (it would in V4, but not in V5), if the problem is really fixed by disabling the onboard video, the only explanation I have is that for some reason, using Prepar3D with two video cards will raise the VRAM requirement in any case so, there's just nothing we can do, other than suggesting to lower your settings to consume less VRAM.

And, if you edit the Addon Manager add-on.xml in the Documents\Prepar3d V5 add-ons\Addon Manager and remove the <Addon.component> section that contains the extra liveries:

  <AddOn.Component>
    <Category>SimObjects</Category>
    <Path>C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Simobjects\PBR_P3D5</Path>
  </AddOn.Component>

GSX will work exactly as it did in the previous version, without multi-liveries or jetway logos, which might save you enough VRAM to prevent exhaustion.

borisvp

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Re: GSX stops onboard graphics device and crashes P3Dv5HF2
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2021, 08:17:39 pm »
Thank you for your response.

I checked the VRAM with GPU-Z: With P3D running it is about 4GB - GSX multi liveries can't be that much that it overloads the VRAM.
But I don't understand the VRAM issue in conjunction with the onboard video. P3D runs on a GTX1070ti with 8GB VRAM. Even if the GSX liveries would tip that, wouldn't then the 1070 crash and not the onboard device?

Strange enough, today's testing was successful. Nothing happened. Yesterday, it crashed my flight in the moment I activated a GSX function - pushback, jetway operation, boarding. I ran Live Update yesterday, so maybe that did the trick.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 08:20:31 pm by borisvp »

virtuali

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Re: GSX stops onboard graphics device and crashes P3Dv5HF2
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2021, 10:08:40 am »
Strange enough, today's testing was successful. Nothing happened. Yesterday, it crashed my flight in the moment I activated a GSX function - pushback, jetway operation, boarding. I ran Live Update yesterday, so maybe that did the trick.

Nothing in the Live Update could possibly have any effect on it because, as I've said, in V5 we don't have ANY direct or indirect relationship with the graphic device, something that *might* have happened in V4 where we used DX11.

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But I don't understand the VRAM issue in conjunction with the onboard video. P3D runs on a GTX1070ti with 8GB VRAM. Even if the GSX liveries would tip that, wouldn't then the 1070 crash and not the onboard device?

As I've said, since we don't have any control over the video device on V5 ( the V5 Addon Manager is a *separate* .DLL, not containing ANY DirectX code like the V4 version, to completely exclude even the unlikely chance we might have left some DirectX call by mistake in V5 ), we don't have the slightest idea how the video memory allocation changes when two devices are used, especially when you add the extra complication of using two DIFFERENT devices ( nVidia + Intel ), meaning two video drivers are working together in the same application, which is not even the same has having two nVidia cards, and likely even more complex, but that's something only LM can answer.

The main issue is, P3D V5 is still not perfectly stable. Sometimes, I just load it and keep it open WITHOUT even starting GSX, and if I wait long enough, like 10 minutes idling on a gate of a default airport on a default airplane, I still get the dreaded DXGI error which means something wrong happened with the graphic card.

Sometimes I just get a black screen requiring to quit P3D to restore the card. And I have an RTX 3090 so, the VRAM used is about 3.5/4.0GB out of 23GB available so, it's unlikely I exhausted memory, it's just the sim that is still not entirely stable, not as the latest 4.5 at least: we made far more "dangerous" things there, yet it seemed to be solid rock.

DX12 is really complex, so much that is mostly outside my level of knowledge (while I didn't had many toubles understanding and using DX11 ), because it puts over the developer's shoulders ( LM in this case, since we don't touch DX12, at all ) lots of memory handling which was previously done by DirectX itself and the video driver, meaning it was one of the most tested and checked code in the world by an army of dedicated programmers from Microsoft/Nvidia/AMD whose sole job was to make DirectX and the video drivers as stable as possible, because a bug in the video drivers would potentially affect hundreds of applications.

Instead, with DX12, lots of that is now the application develoeper resposibility, which means LM in addition to do...a flight simulator, had to take the responsibility to handle VRAM in their own hands, which surely helps with fps, but it's quite a bit more complex and prone to errors. I guess that's why Microsoft is advertising the next big update for MSFS, to include DX12 as a "Preview", that is an optional feature users can try, but the game still supporting DX11 as the main method. That is even Microsoft is not 100% sure to rely completely on DX12, because they know there will be issues.