FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => GSX Support MSFS => Topic started by: rsaberi on October 06, 2023, 07:05:50 am
-
Hello,
Seems like recently (2.7.8) the catering operator can be different than the boarding/deboarding operator! I choose Iran Air for a parking spot and Iran Air shows up for stairs, and luggage trucks but somehow the catering truck is Saman air service. This was never the case until the latest update.
Please look into this.
Thanks,
-
That must have been sheer luck because the handling operator and the catering operator have always been two separate things.
-
What? If you choose Iran Air, as an example, as your operator, the catering operator should also be Iran Air. That had always been the case for me until the recent update and luck doesn't happen every time! Something has been changed that's causing this. The catering operator seems to be what's assigned to the parking spot rather than what you choose as the operating airline when you select jetway/stairs! That's a change from the prior versions (2.7.6 and before). Hope Umberto comes up with a fix!
-
You've not said where you were flying, either. If you were flying a United 777 to Amsterdam, you wouldn't expect to see United catering trucks there. Likewise, if you flew a KLM 747 in Singapore, you wouldn't expect to see KLM catering trucks there, either. That's because the catering trucks wouldn't follow you around everywhere. The airlines would contract it out to somebody else.
-
I am flying in Iran. Airport like OIII, OISS, OIAW, ... All airports there have both Iran Air and also Saman Air Services as the ground support. And mind you I have been doing this for a long time now and this issue of catering truck being different than other ground support is new and started either with 2.7.7 or 2.7.8. Did not have this issue before and have been flying the same places.
-
I've also been doing this for a long time now. You are aware there are some airlines that don't have their own catering services at all? That's why I said the handling operator and catering operators have always been two separate things.
-
Dude that's irrelevant! Yes, I am aware! Here is the fact: Before 2.7.8 (or 2.7.7 short lived, couldn't test it for that), when I selected Iran Air as operator, Iran Air catering truck and ground support would show in GSX with no exception (at Iranian airports). Now that's no longer the case with 2.7.8. I select Iran Air and the ground support is Iran Air but the catering truck is no longer Iran Air, it's Saman Air services! Something has changed in GSX and seems like now GSX is choosing the catering services not based on your selection but rather based on the parking position which should be fixed!
-
Nothing has "changed" in the GSX overall logic, it's just we have a NEW operator in Iran, Saman, which is present both as handling operator and a catering operator, which is of course realistic, since they are operating as a ground handler in Iran with about 3000 employees.
I hope this clarifies the fact that is completely correct and realistic we would see Saman in Iran.
As Kevin tried to tell you, handling and catering are selected independently, there's no relationship whatsoever between the handling operator and the catering operator. And NONE of them is related in any way to the airline you are flying on either.
What controls the operator selection on any given airport, is the Scoring system, which has a while chapter named The Airport Scoring System at Page 90 of the GSX Manual, which I strongly suggest reading, before assuming there's anything "wrong" in the way GSX selects an operator.
In the specific case, we gave to Iran Air handling and Saman handling an equal score of 2, because they both got an OI partial matching for the area, so they will be both present in all airports in Iran. And same for Iran Air Catering and Saman catering and, since they are assigned independently when you'll see the operator menu coming out, you can freely choose one as the handler or the other as caterer, that's how it's supposed to work.
Of course, the whole scoring system will be completely bypassed, if you Customize gates, and set an explicit preference for one (or more) operators, which again are separated from Handling and Catering. The operators you'll set here will ignore the whole scoring system, so you can set any operator(s) at any parking spots so, for example, if you know that Saman operates only a certain airports or even in specific terminals or gates, you CAN do that.
-
I understand what you are saying, thank you! I "Select" Iran Air as operator which I always do, and Iran Air shows up with ground operation except catering! Where can I select Iran Air as catering also? This wasn't the case before! If I "Selected" Iran Air in the menu, then both the ground and catering operators were Iran Air! Now only the ground is Iran Air! Seems like we don't understand each other's language! I will take snapshots of what I select to show you! But I do "Select" Iran Air, I don't let the program to choose for me! Besides, if an airliner has ground handling in an airport and has catering service in the same airport, they will almost never use a catering from another company. That's very unrealistic. Hope you understand that.
-
Normally, when you call for catering, a menu would pop up asking you which one you want. The reason you were automatically getting Iran Air before was that it was the only catering option that was available at the time, therefore there was no point in asking you to choose when there was only one option. Now that Saman has been added in, you have two options to choose from. I hope this makes more sense now. Given that I wasn't aware that Saman was only just recently added in, I could not have told you that initially.
-
Nope that's not the reason. Saman has been in GSX for a while! I figured what the issue is (maybe)! It must be from Fenix2GSX! Since Fenix2GSX is automated, you can select the ground operator, since I do that before starting Fenix2GSX. The rest is automated by Fenix2GSX and now (unfortunately) it selects what is preferred at that parking spot for catering! Before 2.7.8 that wasn't the case and I would get the same ground operator and catering for the spot, if I selected ground operator as Iran Air, Iran Air would show up as catering. Trust me when I say this since this is something that would bother me if it wasn't the case and I would have bugged you before. Both GSX and Fenix2GSX have had recent updates and I suspect I have to go to Finix2GSX to see what he has changed there that the automatic selection of the catering is now parking preference rather than matching the airline I select as ground handling.
In general though, I think GSX should change its logic and if an airport has a ground handling and catering for an airline, then once one is selected it should apply to both. If no catering is available for a spot, then the preferred catering for the spot should be selected unless one selects differently.
-
Nope that's not the reason. Saman has been in GSX for a while!
I mean, I'm just going by what Umberto's saying, unless you're trying to say he's wrong. I have no idea when it got added in.
I figured what the issue is (maybe)! It must be from Fenix2GSX! Since Fenix2GSX is automated, you can select the ground operator, since I do that before starting Fenix2GSX. The rest is automated by Fenix2GSX and now (unfortunately) it selects what is preferred at that parking spot for catering! Before 2.7.8 that wasn't the case and I would get the same ground operator and catering for the spot, if I selected ground operator as Iran Air, Iran Air would show up as catering. Trust me when I say this since this is something that would bother me if it wasn't the case and I would have bugged you before. Both GSX and Fenix2GSX have had recent updates and I suspect I have to go to Finix2GSX to see what he has changed there that the automatic selection of the catering is now parking preference rather than matching the airline I select as ground handling.
That information would have been nice to know. I've never heard of Fenix2GSX, nor was I aware you were even using it, let alone what it does.
In general though, I think GSX should change its logic and if an airport has a ground handling and catering for an airline, then once one is selected it should apply to both. If no catering is available for a spot, then the preferred catering for the spot should be selected unless one selects differently.
Not really sure how that would work, given that GSX already lets you choose which catering service you want when you call for catering if options are available.
-
Thank you for your help. Yep, sorry, I should have said that I am also using Fenix2GSX. Seems like that may be the issue but I will follow up with him regarding that. Somehow it wasn't the issue before the recent update.
Saman air was added with version 2.5.3 - April 16th, 2023. So it's been there a while now.
I love GSX Pro and can't imagine the Sim (as airliner) without it. Hope it keeps improving.
-
In general though, I think GSX should change its logic and if an airport has a ground handling and catering for an airline
And here's is where you are again missing my previous explanation. What does even mean "for an airline"? As I've said already, GSX doesn't (and never had, you make it sound as this was a recent change, but it wasn't) have any link between an airline and the handling/catering operators.
They are selected independently from each other, and the only thing that affects those are:
- The default scoring system which ties the airport to the operators
- Your custom explicit selection in the parking customization page, which completely bypasses the underlying scoring system, letting you choose any operator or operators, anywhere.
That's how GSX always worked (although the ability to select multiple custom operators has been added fairly recently), and it's how it's supposed to work so no, there's nothing to change.
-
Umberto, no need to be defensive. People have suggestions, and if you don't agree with them, that's fine. We love the product and like to make it better. In real life, an airliner that has both ground operation and catering at an airport, will never use another operator unless it's an emergency situation. If you can program that in GSX would be great, if not, that's fine. It was a suggestion.
I know something has changed though regarding the catering services but I think it has to do with the update by Fenix2GSX so I will follow up with them. Before the recent updates, when using Fenix2GSX automation, I always got the same operator for catering as ground handling. That's no longer the case after the recent update of GSX and Fenix2GSX). Every day I fly the same airports, same parking spots, ... so I can tell you that something has changed but it may be on Fenix2GSX not GSX Pro.
-
I mean, if you're using a third-party add-on in conjunction with GSX and that third-party add-on changed something, that's something you need to take up with them. That has nothing to do with GSX since the way GSX handles this hasn't changed. In fact, the handling and catering have been separate even before GSX Pro existed, as the previous GSX product for FSX and P3D did it the exact same way, which is what I was trying to tell you. So take it up with Fenix2GSX and see if they can figure something out.
-
I did and nothing has changed on their side also! It's ok. My observations are my observations. I can't work around it. It's funny that it was working just fine before 2.7.7. I just hoped the program logic would improve ...
-
Umberto, no need to be defensive. People have suggestions, and if you don't agree with them, that's fine. We love the product and like to make it better. In real life, an airliner that has both ground operation and catering at an airport, will never use another operator unless it's an emergency situation. If you can program that in GSX would be great, if not, that's fine. It was a suggestion.
It's not obviously "defensive", it's you that keep not understanding what I wrote and keep saying we "changed" something. Yes, of course we have, we added new operators that, due to how the scoring system works, are now triggering a menu, when before there was no menu, because there was only one choice so, clearly, it would be useless showing a menu with only one choice, and this is how GSX always worked in years so no, the scoring works as expected in this case.
You said that "before", when you selected an operator, you "always" got the same operator for catering. Now, I don't know if Fenix2GSX was trying to do that intentionally (I don't think so) but as I've said, multiple times, it was JUST because due to the scoring (OR the airport profile) there was only a choice, which incidentally resulted in the catering operator being the same as the handler. But again, it has NEVER been a feature ever considered or enforced by GSX. I'll repeat it again, for the last time: handling and catering operators are completely isolated from each other, and this hasn't changed in years.
Now, finally, you are adding something new, that you would LIKE (as a suggestion) to have the handler "linked" to the airline you are flying, and that would also have some impact on the catering operator. This is something (again) GSX NEVER HAD, and it's something that we obviously consider doing, like some rule file that would act like a database of "contracts", that is which companies a certain airline has a business relationship with.
But this might not be as simple or intuitive as it seems because, it would add a 3rd layer of complexity to the assignment rules, and considering how difficult seems to be to explain how the current 2-layers system works (scoring, overridden by user customization), I can only guess how much people would be confused because, what if your airline has a preference for a certain operator, and the airport profile has specified others ?
User perception would be divided between these two camps: those saying "GSX is bugged because it doesn't recognize my airline preference" and those saying "GSX is bugged because it ignores the operators, I have in the parking spot"
So yes, obviously, the 3-tiers system is possible, and we **ARE** considering it, but it will add a lot of complexity to something that is difficult to understand with just two layers (if it wasn't, we wouldn't have this conversation).
But, just to prove not only we always obviously listen to every suggestion, but that we already know what might be added, it should work like this:
1) The current scoring system should keep working as it is, to select something when no better information is available.
2) The airport profile will override and ignore the basic scoring system so, whatever is specified there, it will be the only operators available.
3) A NEW 3rd layer of rules might introduce an "airline preference", meaning a set of rules that would link airlines to their preferred operators: IF your airline is detected (not a given, considering how many 3rd party airplanes comes with missing data in the aircraft.cfg), this NEW intermediate rule file, might do an automatic choice, provided the operators ARE available to begin with, under rules #1 or #2.
-
Yes, the third option would be very good and aligned with real life.
By the way, the second operator for Iranian Airports was added back in April (Saman Air -with version 2.5.3). So it's been there a while now and is not a recent addition. Somehow I never had the issue of getting a different catering operator than the ground crew operator using Fenix2GSX automation and that issue "for me" started after 2.7.7. So either I was very very lucky all this time or something changed. Both of you (GSX and Fenix2GSX) are saying nothing as far as the operator selection goes has changed which makes me feel like I have been very very lucky ;D