FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => GSX Support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: Alpolex on January 23, 2023, 09:45:10 am
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Dear Umberto,
I would like to adress on of the major issues with GSX in terms of online flying. Indeed, it's not a programming error but a logical sequence problem.
Asking for Pushback during an online session of VATSIM or IVAO requires to be ready to push immediately after approval. However, to be ready upon receiving the clearance it requires to define the direction of pushback before the clearance because it will take between 30-60seconds to finish the pushback preparations of the Tug.
Current Sequence: -> Pushback is requested -> Direction of pushback is asked -> Pushback tug finishes preparations -> ATC clearance requested -> Direction of pushback is being advised -> Pushback is commenced.
If there is a change in direction, there will be no possibility to change the direction on short-notice. Could you please be so kind to enable us to finish all pushback preparations beforehand and in best case have a sub-menu which allows us to change the direction of push in terms of short-notice changes?
Best Regards and thank you!
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Here's an idea. Request the push, and when it asks what direction you want to push, don't select one right away. Call ATC for push. When they tell you, then select the direction. It definitely shouldn't take more than 30 seconds from the point in which you select a direction to the point in which the ground crew tells you to release the parking brakes.
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Hello Captain Kevin,
thank you. As described in the post above, the timeframe between selecting the direction of pushback and initiation of itself is too long, especially during events.
Therfore the first request: change of sequence
Second problem is if there is any interruption or change in terms of direction after selecting it, therefore the second request or suggestion: change of direction after selecting pushback.
Especially the change of sequence would enhance the ability to cope with requirements for realistic pushback times.
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I did a video demonstration of this because I think you've misunderstood what I was saying. If you take a look at what I've done in the video, you will see that from the point in which I select a direction to the point I release the parking brakes is 2 seconds, and that was because I had to wait for the ground crew to tell me to do that. I don't think it gets any quicker than that. The video is unlisted because I don't intend to keep it up once you've seen it.
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Yeah, a workaround. However, asking for the pushback to connect and standby until further notice to be ready for a pushback after receiving the ATC clearance, like in real-life, and then selecting the pushback which will be initiated directly, would be the better sequence.
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Yeah, a workaround. However, asking for the pushback to connect and standby until further notice to be ready for a pushback after receiving the ATC clearance, like in real-life, and then selecting the pushback which will be initiated directly, would be the better sequence.
So just to confirm, you are wanting a button to ask the pushback to connect and standby, and then another button for selecting a direction? I'm not sure I understand the logic since you can't hear the pilot voices anyway. Once you initiate the pushback sequence, they'll already be connecting, and if you don't select a direction right away, they would be completing the connection sequence and then standing by anyway until you do.
By the way, I just ran a quick test and selected a direction immediately after it popped up, and the ground crew told me to release the parking brakes right away. So I'm not sure I understand the issue regarding a delay.
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Hello Captain Kevin,
just to make sure we're talking about the same factors: I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.
Starting the process with "Hello Captain we are ready for pushback" initiates the Ramp Agent going to the NLG to insert the bypass pins. However, after he confirms "bypass bin inserted" the p/b truck starts to arrive (1:11 min) to attach the aircraft to it's tug.
The announcement "locking the gear" (however, unnecessary call-out you wouldn't hear in real-ife) comes around 1:30 min with a pop-up message to state the direciton of pushback.
Selecting the direction it takes another 37 seconds for any movement before the "Release parking brake" announcement comes up.
To be straigh forward, because it seems you are not really understanding what I am asking for: I am not asking for a work-around after several years of intensive usage of GSX especially on VATSIM and online events.
I would like to enhance the sequence.
Improvement: Sequence should be initated with push-back completly ready and asking for direction during a second menu which means there are two stages in the menu:
a) Prepare for Pushback -> all preparations will be made and the tug is connected plus everything is ready upon selecting the next menu
b) Start Pushback -> request for direction and immediate start of pushback
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Selecting the direction it takes another 37 seconds for any movement before the "Release parking brake" announcement comes up.
To be straigh forward, because it seems you are not really understanding what I am asking for: I am not asking for a work-around after several years of intensive usage of GSX especially on VATSIM and online events.
I would like to enhance the sequence.
Improvement: Sequence should be initated with push-back completly ready and asking for direction during a second menu which means there are two stages in the menu:
a) Prepare for Pushback -> all preparations will be made and the tug is connected plus everything is ready upon selecting the next menu
b) Start Pushback -> request for direction and immediate start of pushback
The real question here is why is it taking 37 seconds from the time you select a direction to the time you're told to release the parking brakes because it shouldn't be doing that. As you saw in my video, I call for pushback, and everything's ready to go by the time the request for direction takes place, so as far as I'm concerned, from my video, it's doing exactly what you're wanting it to do. The only thing I can think of is if by some chance, there was an update that happened a while ago where the bypass pin location was added that the GSX aircraft configuration hadn't been updated for some reason. So here's a quick test. Start a pushback, but stay in external view and watch what the ground crew is doing. If you see the ground crew walk up to the center of the airplane and then back to the nose, this would confirm what I suspect.
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It's not a question, it's fact similar to other users. As I said, performed with the FSL A320FAM not PMDG.
See quote:
I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.
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I fully agree with Alpolex.
Logical sequence is looks wrong to me too.
For offline flights it probably not an issue but for flying in Vatsim in busy event it takes too much time.
The proposal to enable to finish all pushback preparations before looks very logical to me.
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It's not a question, it's fact similar to other users. As I said, performed with the FSL A320FAM not PMDG.
See quote:
I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.
Yes, I see that, but even then, I don't think it should be taking that long even with a different airplane. I asked you to check something for me to see if the bypass pin location could be a problem. You haven't done this yet. I can't really do anything else if I don't get an answer to my question since I don't have the FSL A320, so I can't check myself. I do remember that prior to me fixing the bypass pin issue myself, it did take a bit of time from the time I selected a direction to the time I got the call to release parking brakes, but I don't have this issue anymore since I solved the bypass pin issue. Just to be clear, I'm not questioning the fact that it's happening, I'm questioning why it is, and I'm trying to figure this out for you because it shouldn't be doing that.
I fully agree with Alpolex.
Logical sequence is looks wrong to me too.
For offline flights it probably not an issue but for flying in Vatsim in busy event it takes too much time.
The proposal to enable to finish all pushback preparations before looks very logical to me.
I do fly on VATSIM, so I get what you're saying here with regards to timing. What I am saying here is if it works the way it should, it should already be doing what you propose it does. It shouldn't be taking 37 seconds from the time a direction is selected to the time you get the call to release the parking brakes. As far as the bypass pin issue, if there isn't a bypass pin position set in the GSX aircraft configuration, it defaults to 0,0,0, which is the center of the airplane. If that happens, the ground crew has a much longer distance to walk compared to if the bypass pin position is properly set in the GSX aircraft configuration. That's why I'm asking him to check this.
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Sorry for that message. I realize that I keep the parking brake on nvm I need to turn it off to pushback. Seems that my P3D disconnected my messages on screen so I was sitting on the gate like idiot. Kha, darn, I am so silly........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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100% agree with you here. In real life the pushback is connected and ready to go, as soon a clearance and a tail direction is confirmed pushback only takes a matter of seconds. Not 30-40 seconds which we are waiting at the moment.
Bypass pin - pushback connected - reopen gsx menu to pick direction - pushback commences. This would match the realworld nicely and bring the time down.
Hello Captain Kevin,
just to make sure we're talking about the same factors: I am using the FSL A320FAM which obviously have different timings.
Starting the process with "Hello Captain we are ready for pushback" initiates the Ramp Agent going to the NLG to insert the bypass pins. However, after he confirms "bypass bin inserted" the p/b truck starts to arrive (1:11 min) to attach the aircraft to it's tug.
The announcement "locking the gear" (however, unnecessary call-out you wouldn't hear in real-ife) comes around 1:30 min with a pop-up message to state the direciton of pushback.
Selecting the direction it takes another 37 seconds for any movement before the "Release parking brake" announcement comes up.
To be straigh forward, because it seems you are not really understanding what I am asking for: I am not asking for a work-around after several years of intensive usage of GSX especially on VATSIM and online events.
I would like to enhance the sequence.
Improvement: Sequence should be initated with push-back completly ready and asking for direction during a second menu which means there are two stages in the menu:
a) Prepare for Pushback -> all preparations will be made and the tug is connected plus everything is ready upon selecting the next menu
b) Start Pushback -> request for direction and immediate start of pushback
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100% agree with you here. In real life the pushback is connected and ready to go, as soon a clearance and a tail direction is confirmed pushback only takes a matter of seconds. Not 30-40 seconds which we are waiting at the moment.
Bypass pin - pushback connected - reopen gsx menu to pick direction - pushback commences. This would match the realworld nicely and bring the time down.
And speaking of the bypass pin, did anybody even bother checking to see where GSX thinks the bypass pin actually is on the airplane. I asked twice now, and up until now, nobody's actually done this. This is the only thing I can think of that might cause such a significant delay because one of the previous updates added the bypass pin location into the GSX aircraft configuration. If there isn't a bypass pin position set in the GSX aircraft configuration, it defaults to 0,0,0, which is the center of the airplane. If that happens, the ground crew has a much longer distance to walk compared to if the bypass pin position is properly set in the GSX aircraft configuration. This is the only reason I can think of for such a significant delay. I do remember that prior to me fixing the bypass pin issue myself, it did take a bit of time from the time I selected a direction to the time I got the call to release parking brakes, but I don't have this issue anymore since I solved the bypass pin issue.
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[aircraft]
nosegear = 9.40
refueling = 0
battery = 0
pushbackraise = 0
pushbackdummyevent = 0
pushbackcheckengines = 0
iscargo = 0
trafficcones = 1
preferredexit = 0
wingrootpos = 3.98 -2.31 -0.95
wingtippos = 15.16 -6.39 -0.08
fuelpos = 10.25 -2.92 -0.67
waterpos = -0.56 -14.45 0.00
lavatorypos = 0.67 -14.49 0.00
gpupos = 0.12 11.90 -2.17
engine1pos = -5.85 1.31 -2.57
engine2pos = 5.87 1.30 -2.57
engine3pos = 0.00 0.00 0.00
engine4pos = 0.00 0.00 0.00
[exit1]
pos = -1.95 9.40 -1.17 3.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door1, number) 2900 >=
name = Left Fwd Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0
[exit2]
remove = 1
[exit3]
remove = 1
[exit4]
pos = -1.70 -15.24 -1.12 -11.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door3, number) 2900 >=
name = Left Aft Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0
[service1]
pos = 1.93 9.50 -1.02 -4.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door2, number) 2900 >=
name = Right Fwd Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0
[service2]
pos = 1.74 -15.15 -1.02 10.00
code = (L:FSLA320_pax_door4, number) 2900 >=
name = Right Aft Cabin Door
embeddedStair = 0
[cargo1]
pos = 0.96 6.28 -2.13 0.00
code = (L:FSLA320_upper_cargo_door, number) 2900 >=
name = Upper Cargo Door
embeddedStair = 0
uldcode =""
[cargo2]
pos = 0.94 -8.14 -2.13 0.00
code = (L:FSLA320_lower_cargo_door, number) 2900 >=
name = Lower Cargo Door
embeddedStair = 0
uldcode =""
[cargomain]
remove = 1
Here's the A320CFM GSX Config.
Nevertheless, I would be happy if you could at least start to jump on this topic about the senseless and unrealistic sequence. I am working in the aviation industry and flying on a regular basis as a crew member on the flight deck - so my feedback is based on how those procedures are performed in reality.
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Add the following line after lavatorypos = 0.67 -14.49 0.00 and see if that solves it. As I suspected, you were missing the bypass pin position line, which is making the ground crew walk to the center of the airplane to insert the bypass pin, which in itself is unrealistic.
bypasspinpos = 0.00 9.40 0.00
Nevertheless, I would be happy if you could at least start to jump on this topic about the senseless and unrealistic sequence. I am working in the aviation industry and flying on a regular basis as a crew member on the flight deck - so my feedback is based on how those procedures are performed in reality.
Yes, I am trying to help you out here if you would let me. I'm not part of the development team, so I can't make any changes to the programming itself. Try the above step and see if that solves it.
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Add the following line after lavatorypos = 0.67 -14.49 0.00 and see if that solves it. As I suspected, you were missing the bypass pin position line, which is making the ground crew walk to the center of the airplane to insert the bypass pin, which in itself is unrealistic.
I haven't said they are walking to the centre of the aircraft, and the ramp agent is not doing so. Where did I say this?
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I haven't said they are walking to the centre of the aircraft, and the ramp agent is not doing so. Where did I say this?
You never responded when I asked the first two times, and even after I asked you to check the third time, you didn't exactly answer the question, either. I can't assume anything with no information, and I'm not a mind reader. As I said, that was the only thing I could think of since I had that issue myself, and fixing that solved the timing issue for me. If that didn't solve it for you, I'm afraid I'm out of ideas and you're on your own. As far as I know, the FSL A320 has its own integration with GSX, so I'm not sure if that might also have anything to do with it. I also don't know if you've tried a different airplane to see if you still had this issue.
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In this case I would suggest the follow the chagne of sequence.
As well as working on the cargo loaders which should not be removed when the fuel truck arrives. I mean this is a simple procedure and was requested 1-2 years ago?
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If you notice, GSX uses different types of tugs for the pushback. If the tug you get has a towbar, the pushback starts right after you select the direction of push. If you the tug you get is the towbarless type, it has to lock the nosewheel and raise it off the ground to start pushing. GSX animates this process after the direction of push is selected. This is what takes time and there is no way around this unless GSX changes the connection process of the towbarless tug. So to get GSX to push right after direction selection FSDT would have to change the sequence somewhat, but only for the towbarless tug. This is the same for FSL A320 and PMDG 747.
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If you notice, GSX uses different types of tugs for the pushback. If the tug you get has a towbar, the pushback starts right after you select the direction of push. If you the tug you get is the towbarless type, it has to lock the nosewheel and raise it off the ground to start pushing. GSX animates this process after the direction of push is selected. This is what takes time and there is no way around this unless GSX changes the connection process of the towbarless tug. So to get GSX to push right after direction selection FSDT would have to change the sequence somewhat, but only for the towbarless tug. This is the same for FSL A320 and PMDG 747.
I knew GSX used two different types of tugs, I did not know that there was such a timing difference between the two. I went to check and put together a quick little video. It's unlisted, and I plan to pull it once everyone's done with it. There are two parts to the video. In the first part, you can see that in both instances, the pushback is called at the same time, and the bypass pin is inserted at the same time. It looks like with the towbarless tug, the direction menu pops up, and then the ground crew calls locking gear, whereas with the towbar tug, the ground crew calls locking gear, then the direction menu pops up. In both instances, the tugs don't move until the ground crew is out of the way, however, in the case of the towbarless tug, the ground crew has a longer distance to walk since they walk over to the tug, as opposed to the towbar tug where the ground crew just steps off to the side. In the second part of the video, I rearranged the video clips, so both tugs move at the same time. The tug with the towbar is still a little faster than the towbarless tug as far as the sequence of events taking place.
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In this case I would suggest the follow the chagne of sequence.
As well as working on the cargo loaders which should not be removed when the fuel truck arrives. I mean this is a simple procedure and was requested 1-2 years ago?
In fact they did change the procedure in a past update, where you could request pushback and it connect the truck and insert the bypass pin and THEN ask you for the direction, which made flying on a busy Vatsim day easy. And if you werent ready yet it would let you request pushback again only to ask you the direction right away, select it and start the pushback once you release the parking brake.
But during one of the last updates they changed it again and its, and forgive my language, crappy. I now get the direction even when the truck hasnt moved yet, and when I close the window and use the pushback function again it wont do anything, just stay there until the apocalypse.
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If you notice, GSX uses different types of tugs for the pushback. If the tug you get has a towbar, the pushback starts right after you select the direction of push. If you the tug you get is the towbarless type, it has to lock the nosewheel and raise it off the ground to start pushing. GSX animates this process after the direction of push is selected. This is what takes time and there is no way around this unless GSX changes the connection process of the towbarless tug. So to get GSX to push right after direction selection FSDT would have to change the sequence somewhat, but only for the towbarless tug. This is the same for FSL A320 and PMDG 747.
I knew GSX used two different types of tugs, I did not know that there was such a timing difference between the two. I went to check and put together a quick little video. It's unlisted, and I plan to pull it once everyone's done with it. There are two parts to the video. In the first part, you can see that in both instances, the pushback is called at the same time, and the bypass pin is inserted at the same time. It looks like with the towbarless tug, the direction menu pops up, and then the ground crew calls locking gear, whereas with the towbar tug, the ground crew calls locking gear, then the direction menu pops up. In both instances, the tugs don't move until the ground crew is out of the way, however, in the case of the towbarless tug, the ground crew has a longer distance to walk since they walk over to the tug, as opposed to the towbar tug where the ground crew just steps off to the side. In the second part of the video, I rearranged the video clips, so both tugs move at the same time. The tug with the towbar is still a little faster than the towbarless tug as far as the sequence of events taking place.
What about forwarding this to Umberto and checking this out with the FSL A320FAM aircraft which have dozen of erros in the GSX integration currently instead of continuously checking this thing with the PMDG 747?
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What about forwarding this to Umberto and checking this out with the FSL A320FAM aircraft which have dozen of erros in the GSX integration currently instead of continuously checking this thing with the PMDG 747?
As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't own the FSL A320. I can't check it with an airplane I don't own. You want me to check it with the PMDG 737 or 777, I can do that. I suppose if it really came down to that, I could also re-install the QualityWings 787 and check it with that, too, if it really came down to that, as much as I don't really want to.
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I want to adress a series of problems and erros which currently occur with v5.3 and FSL A320FAM aircraft plus a logical change in sequence.
And maybe you'll ask a beta tester which has the A320FAM.
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And maybe you'll ask a beta tester which has the A320FAM.
I don't know who has what.
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Strange team composition. Don't you have a channel to talk to each other?
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Strange team composition. Don't you have a channel to talk to each other?
I'll tell you what. Up until the end of September, I was an over-the-road truck driver for nearly 8.5 years. I was away from home for 35 days straight in a week and only home for five days. In one shift, I could work 14 hours a day, but drive for only 11 hours a day, at which point, I would have to take a 10-hour break, and in an 8-day period, I could work 70 hours. Now you tell me how much time you think I actually have to do anything flight simulator related, or rather, anything that wasn't work related at all, if I was only doing a 10-hour break, bearing in mind eat, shower, and sleep must be factored into those 10 hours.
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Kudos, my friend.
I was as well driving a longrange truck during Corona in Europe and delivered cooled goods as well as milk.
By the way, in Europe we're allowed to have 15 hour shifts incl. a maximum of 2x weekly 10 hour driving which makes as well 220 working hours per month.
But I do still recognize when someone tells me a valid question and it's target. :) And the question was not related to the PMDG 747, nor if anybody has a valid work-around nor how I should change the usage to avoid an irrational and unlogical sequence.
This bother's me already for a long time, as well as several other complaints. Plus, nothing works properly with GSX anymore. Really nothing. Even turn-arounds are not possible anymore because the fuel truck does not arrive despite its requested...
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But I do still recognize when someone tells me a valid question and it's target. :)
And I tried to help you the best I could with the information I had available.
And the question was not related to the PMDG 747, nor if anybody has a valid work-around nor how I should change the usage to avoid an irrational and unlogical sequence.
As far as I know, GSX on its own doesn't care about the aircraft type as far as the pushback process is concerned. It wasn't until somebody else mentioned the timing difference with the different tugs that I was able to confirm it myself, and the video shows it, even if I did have to use the 747 to confirm it. With the towbar tug, I was able to get it to work just fine without a delay. With the towbarless tug, there was, in fact, a delay. Why that is, I have no idea.
This bother's me already for a long time, as well as several other complaints. Plus, nothing works properly with GSX anymore. Really nothing. Even turn-arounds are not possible anymore because the fuel truck does not arrive despite its requested...
One thing I have noticed is if you wait for the catering process to show as completed and then call the fuel truck, the fuel truck will show up. If you do it before that, it's hit or miss. I realize it's probably not the answer you're looking for, but unless they can replicate it and find a way to fix it (I don't think anybody has reported it before), that's probably the best you can do for now.