FSDreamTeam forum
FS9 support => Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood FS9 => Topic started by: Captain2000 on June 17, 2009, 09:20:20 pm
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FSDT Crew -
Excellent job with this scenery! I was blown away at the detail to be found here at my home airport. Also, the performance is beyond what I would have expected given the quality of everything. May be the best that you have done to date! ;D
A few observations after some spending some time looking around (in the FS9 version):
1) Palm Tree Textures - The palm trees around the parking garages seem to have a blue halo around them. See attached screenshot.
2) Runway Lighting - There should only be approach lighting on 9L/27R. In the current version there is approach lighting on 13 as well. Should not be there...and is distracting when on approach to 9L at night. Also, 9L/27R should not have REIL (the two bright strobes at the corners of the runway). This one is not a huge deal, but a detail none the less.
3) Do not see the cruise ship that appears in the preview shots here in the forum. (Tried changing the day and time in case it was tied to a realistic cruise schedule...but no luck.) Is this detail not included in the FS9 version?
4) Looking forward to the AFCAD wizards working their magic to clean up the parking!
That's the early report. Congrats again on another great product!
Thanks!
Kelly
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We'll surely have a look at the runway lights.
About the cruise ships: this is not something that we modeled in the FSX scenery either: it's coming from the FSX default scenery.
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every time i close FS9 it shuts down normaly ... and then i receive a request that tells me an error (very late). i think it's the bglman.dll
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every time i close FS9 it shuts down normaly ... and then i receive a request that tells me an error (very late). i think it's the bglman.dll
Do you already had any of our sceneries installed before ?
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I get an error saying FS9 has stop responding after about a minute of shutting FS9 down
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every time i close FS9 it shuts down normaly ... and then i receive a request that tells me an error (very late). i think it's the bglman.dll
Do you already had any of our sceneries installed before ?
yes, i have them all and FS9 shuts down without such a behaviour before KFLL was installed.
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Yeah, I get the same error message.
Any ideas?
Other than a few minor details that I am sure will be worked out later on, KFLL is cool!!!!
Keep up the great work!!!!!!!!!
I am so looking forward to DFW.
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Have the "closing" anomoly here too. Didn't worry too much about it when it happened the first tme. But now I see that I am not alone!
Virtuali: Thanks for your reply above to look into the lighting. Any thoughts on the palm tree textures?
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Any thoughts on the palm tree textures?
nope, it seems that we all have the same shaded palms :)
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7296/palms.th.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/palms.jpg/)
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Hopefully the palm issue is a simple one...
Further review of the night lighting shows that the approach lighting needs correction all over. If this is helpful, here is a summary of what should be at FLL. (Confirmed through charts and in person!)
9L - MALSR - PAPI on the right - HIGH intensity runway lights
27R - MALSR - PAPI on the left - HIGH intensity runway lights
9R - REIL (the two bright strobes) - PAPI on the left - MEDIUM intensity runway lights
27L - NO APPROACH - PAPI on the left - MEDIUM intensity runway lights
13 - REIL - PAPI on the left - MEDIUM intensity runway lights
31 - REIL - PAPI on the left - MEDIUM intensity runway lights
Thank you. ;D
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yes, i have them all and FS9 shuts down without such a behaviour before KFLL was installed.
Ok, then it's sure it's not bglman.dll, because we haven't changed it for KFLL.
However, I think to have found the problem, it's KFLL scenery itself: 3 BGLs seems to affect this, specifically, the cars inside the 3 parkings seems to be the problem, because I've just tested a version without them, and there's no problem anymore.
Perhaps they are just too many of them, I'm not sure right now but, the same objects in FSX works without problems, maybe we hit another unknown limitation of FS9...we need to make further experiments.
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Greetings,
Regarding the shutdown issue after installing KFLL i do have this. I have all the FSDT sceneries installed and all the sceneries are up to date. It is the common message "FS has encountered an error and needs to close. We're sorry for the inconvenience" . This message appears about 1-2 minutes after FS is closed.
In my case the faulty module was util.dll
My FS is updated at 9.1
Before I had FLL installed I never had a problem with all FSDT sceneries installed.
thanks,
Thierry
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In my case the faulty module was util.dll
Yes, that's what's happened here as well. The only thing that's sure, it's not bglman.dll, it's more something related to the graphic engine which, unfortunately, I'm not able to reproduce consistently.
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Reference the palm tree textures showing a blue halo around them, this happened with Fly Tampa's TNCM release. Read this thread here to understand what is happening and read Martin's post inside the thread to fix the issue: http://www.flytampa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2263&highlight=palm+tree
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In my case the faulty module was util.dll
Yes, that's what's happened here as well. The only thing that's sure, it's not bglman.dll, it's more something related to the graphic engine which, unfortunately, I'm not able to reproduce consistently.
Umberto, thanks for your report and i'm sure you can fix it!
also thx to B777ER for the clue with the palm trees - i will try to fix it on my machine later the day and report. :)
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Eric, i have now done the palm-patch. it's better but not good - have a look:
(http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4815/palmsh.th.jpg) (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/palmsh.jpg/)
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Greetings,
Regarding the shutdown issue after installing KFLL i do have this. I have all the FSDT sceneries installed and all the sceneries are up to date. It is the common message "FS has encountered an error and needs to close. We're sorry for the inconvenience" . This message appears about 1-2 minutes after FS is closed.
In my case the faulty module was util.dll
My FS is updated at 9.1
Before I had FLL installed I never had a problem with all FSDT sceneries installed.
thanks,
Thierry
Hello all,
I thought I should let you know that I received this same error for the first time about 4 days ago after I purchased Aerosofts Mega Airport Lisbon for FS9. This was obviously before I even had FSDT's KFLL installed.
Scott
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Hi Umberto,
I too am getting the FS needs to close error a few minutes after I close FS9. I also encountered this error when I was in game at KFLL and used the “Go to airport” feature to move to a different airport from KFLL. I have never experienced this error before with FS9 on either of my systems. Both installations of FS9 are identical and the systems are identical. I have been able to reproduce these errors consistently on both systems and only after I have installed KFLL. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Other than the above I have to say that I am very pleased with KFLL in FS9. The frame rates are very good, and the detail is outstanding.
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We think to have found the problem. Thanks to the user rduda, that we thanks for this, we discovered this is a well known FS9 bug ( well, we never heard about it: :o) ), related to a way to create an elevated platform command, used on the 3 parking lots, which crashes util.dll.
We'll probably be able to fix it, be redoing the platform in a different way.
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You're welcome. Take all the time you need to fix it.
All the best.
Rainer.
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Umberto,
Thank you for looking into this and thanks to Rainer for identifying the cause. And as Rainer said, take all the time you need to fix it. I’m sure that I’m safe to say that we all appreciate your dedication to creating a top quality product.
Again, Thank you!
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WTG Rainer! ;)
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Rainer!
Mathijs is going to kill you for improving a competitor's product! ;D Just kidding of course.
Thank you for reporting this, the fs9ers appreciate it.
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I just thought I'd chime in and say I have the same issues too. Add a bit more "fuel to the fire" ;D. FS error message and an auto MS restart about 10 seconds after shutting it down. Also get the "FS needs to close" box after selecting go to airport in the middle of a flight. No big deal guys, take your time on the fix. Thanks for the great scenery!
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Rainer!
Mathijs is going to kill you for improving a competitor's product! ;D Just kidding of course.
Thank you for reporting this, the fs9ers appreciate it.
;D :D Hihi, I like this idea. :)
Then he would have killed me several times during the last years because of my ongoing beta-screenshots from my design friends, who further support FS9. My screens show how we can close the gap to FSX with using of other addons.
@all: Thanks for the kind words. I hope it will be possible that (for example) Oliver can do some AESlight traffic around KLAS and KFLL. That would be a great assistence and all FS9-friends would loose the emptiness on the streets. Its now up to FSDreamteam to first fix their KFLL and then - maybe - pick up this possibility. I would like it. :)
All the best,
Rainer.
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I hope it will be possible that (for example) Oliver can do some AESlight traffic around KLAS and KFLL. That would be a great assistence and all FS9-friends would loose the emptiness on the streets.
hello Rainer!
hehe - Oliver MUST do this! ;D ;)
but you're right! only words and we all can only hope he will do (at least i will appreciate it very much)!
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Is there an indication when the FS9 version of KFLL will be altered due to the error faults notices.
I have recently had a major computer problem due to error notices which meant that I had to fork out a few euro's to have it corrected.
Therefore I am very wary of downloading the airport at this moment as a error notice may unwillingly trigger some other problem on my computer.
FSDT has in the past often sorted out customer problems very quickly, so here's hoping for the same good service.
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The update is out now.
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Reference the palm tree textures showing a blue halo around them, this happened with Fly Tampa's TNCM release. Read this thread here to understand what is happening and read Martin's post inside the thread to fix the issue: http://www.flytampa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2263&highlight=palm+tree
I have the same halo issue, and the conversion didn't seem to help. Anyone recal what disk the default tree textures can be found?
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Found them on disk two and still didn't change anything. Seems most prominent when the parking garage is behind them like the system doesn't see it as solid. Below the horizon the problem goes away. No idea, but here is an illustration.
(http://www.digitalaviator.net/MiscPics/KFLLTrees.jpg)
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Ya, I still have the halo's around the trees as well...looks ugly, very ugly.
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Found them on disk two and still didn't change anything. Seems most prominent when the parking garage is behind them like the system doesn't see it as solid. Below the horizon the problem goes away. No idea, but here is an illustration.
The issue is created by the fact that, when you have 2 objects (trees and parking) with alpha elements on them, they should be sorted before drawing. Unfortunately, sorting is a *very* expensive process, probably one of the slowest things to do in flight sim, because all objects will have to be sorted and re-sorted, and each frame. Also, to be sorted, each tree should be an independent objects, which will slow down further the sim. Right now, they are grouped, because a group of, let's say, 500 polygons, draws MUCH faster than 50 objects with 10 polygons each. But we should un-group them, in order to sort them...
Sceneries that use those very old design methods (each small object being independent + sorting of all the one having alpha ) were those made for FS2000 that run in FS9 (like Simflyers, that why they have the peformance they have), that would not need these methods, because it uses the much faster z-buffer for perspective sorting so, sorting is not usually needed in FS9, except for alpha, which would be highly inefficent to do, if you have so many objects that needs to be sorted, like trees.
Converting the tree textures in DXT1 fixes somewhat the effect on the tree foliage, but makes for really UGLY tree shadows because, after the conversion in DXT1, the shadow, that is made as part of the texture ( for the obvious reason that a textured shadow is WAY faster than letting FS9 calculate the shadow in realtime ), becomes pitch black, with no smooth grey overlayed on ground, that is only possible with DXT3. We tried this before releasing the upgrade, but it really looked bad, MUCH worse than having the blue halo in certain viewing angles, because it would appear always. So, we decided to leave it like this.
Of course, this only happens in FS9, because FSX has an entirely different handling of transparencies, so there's no problem there.
We *might* be able to fix it, by making the trees with two different materials, one for the foliage in DXT1 and one for the shadow in DXT3, of course getting a performance penality, because of the somewhat costly material switch (every new material in an object, has an added drawing cost)
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I follow the explanation, but I'm not sure I'm seeing that in practice. I converted the tree textures to DXT1 and there was no change. The photo I posted was after the default trees were replaced from the original disks, and as you can see no change there either. Are the trees in the scenery custom?
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Are the trees in the scenery custom
As I've said in my last message, the texture that needs to be converted is the KFLL_tree.bmp. The default tree texture doesn't have anything to do with this problem, and is not used.
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I'm sorry, but I don't see where in this thread you've said which texture was the culprit. Nevertheless you have now which answers the simple and polite question I posed.
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I don't know why, but I've edited my last message after posting it, specifying that you could try yourself the effect, by converting the KFLL_tree.bmp to DXT1, and see how it's probably better to leave it like it is now, because the halo is not really visible except from certain angles and only when close, but the ugly black shadows are always visible from anywere.
I don't know why, the additions hasn't appeared on the forum.
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I've made the conversion and it's a big improvement in my opinion. I do see the mentioned shadows, but I find them to be much less noticeable. When taxiing, the halos always seem to be right at the wrong level, and very much in your face. The shadows on the ground are much more subtle to my eye.
I do seem to have a lot of trees popping up through various roadways though. Any thoughts on that?
(http://www.digitalaviator.net/MiscPics/KFLLTrees201.jpg)
(http://www.digitalaviator.net/MiscPics/KFLLTrees202.jpg)
(http://www.digitalaviator.net/MiscPics/KFLLTrees203.jpg)
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I do seem to have a lot of trees popping up through various roadways though. Any thoughts on that?
Nothing related to our scenery. Have you installed some kind of autogen replacement textures ?
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I have Freeflow Florida installed. Possibly related?
It's not a big deal, but thought I'd bring it up to see if it was something easy.
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We'll surely have a look at the runway lights.
Thanks to the FSDT crew for the v1.2 update. :) Any plans to revisit the approach lighting? There should not be any on 13/31 or 9R/27L....only on the main runway 9L/27R.
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Any plans to revisit the approach lighting? There should not be any on 13/31 or 9R/27L....only on the main runway 9L/27R.
No, because Flight sim, when the approach lights are set to None, the PAPI will be disabled as well. I guess it's best to have an approach light that doesn't exist in real life, but certainly doesn't create any trouble, than to lose the PAPI, which will make landing more difficult, even in daylight.
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Any plans to revisit the approach lighting? There should not be any on 13/31 or 9R/27L....only on the main runway 9L/27R.
No, because Flight sim, when the approach lights are set to None, the PAPI will be disabled as well. I guess it's best to have an approach light that doesn't exist in real life, but certainly doesn't create any trouble, than to lose the PAPI, which will make landing more difficult, even in daylight.
Thanks for the reply, although I must say that I find it extremely disappointing. I fail to see why these can't be controlled independantly of each other in your custom work. After all, we have had the ability via AFCAD for default and other airports to have any combination of runway markings, approach lighting, touchdown zones, runway lighting type and VASI/PAPI in any position of any variety. That they must now be tied together makes no sense to me at all.
While "it doesn't create any trouble" it is not accurate. On approach and even up through short final to 9L you can see all three sets of flashes, 9L, 9R and 13. This wouldn't be accurate even if they were supposed to exist.
I'm a big fan of your scenery work, and as a local to FLL was thrilled to see the outcome and happy to provide Fabrizio with the resources needed to make things accurate. I beleive this is a step back from "as real as it gets" and your stock has lost a bit in my book. Perhaps I am in the minority on this small point because this is my home airport, but I really believe that this should not have been a complicated detail to get correct.
Thank you,
Kelly Wilbar
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I fail to see why these can't be controlled independantly of each other in your custom work.
The runway lights are standard FS, only the runway textures are custom.
That they must now be tied together makes no sense to me at all.
It doesn't make much sense to us either, but that's how it works. If it was possible to turn off approach lights without losing PAPI, we would already done that.
While "it doesn't create any trouble" it is not accurate. On approach and even up through short final to 9L you can see all three sets of flashes, 9L, 9R and 13. This wouldn't be accurate even if they were supposed to exist.
I repeat and confirm that I don't see why seeing an approach light that is not supposed to be there can cause "troubles", it might not be 100% realistic, but the real trouble would be losing PAPI instead.
I'm a big fan of your scenery work, and as a local to FLL was thrilled to see the outcome and happy to provide Fabrizio with the resources needed to make things accurate. I beleive this is a step back from "as real as it gets" and your stock has lost a bit in my book.
You still don't get it: there's nothing we can do about it, regardless of how many information you would have provided. BTW, fact that no approach lights are on those runways, was already apparent from the charts, we were always aware of this, the fact they are not made as in real life, is not an oversight on our part, it's how flight sim (unfortunately) works.
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You still don't get it: there's nothing we can do about it, regardless of how many information you would have provided. BTW, fact that no approach lights are on those runways, was already apparent from the charts, we were always aware of this, the fact they are not made as in real life, is not an oversight on our part, it's how flight sim (unfortunately) works.
I think I "get it" just fine. Certainly I will accept your response at face value, although frankly I have a hard time reconcilling it with the fact that via AFCAD we can change this lighting on default airports any way one would desire and that other custom work (even ancient by your design standards like FT Miami) doesn't force one type of lights with the other. Apparantly Flightsim "works" differently depending on the design approach.
As I stated earlier I am perhaps more sensitive and expect too much as this is home. Approach lighting notwithstanding, the work on FLL is first rate and I wouldn't dream of giving it up. No other designer gives the level of detail and performance that you guys do. Looking forward to the next project.
Thank you.
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Approach lighting notwithstanding, the work on FLL is first rate and I wouldn't dream of giving it up. No other designer gives the level of detail and performance that you guys do. Looking forward to the next project.
So, with the file attached, we might just say it's finally done...
We checked better, and the PAPI limitation was related only to threshold lights, meaning, you can't have PAPI if there are no threshold lights. But it's possible to have PAPI without approach lights indeed, which is what you'll find on the attached file.
The file it's the same for FS9 and FSX so, it can be used in FSX as well as it is. We'll not include in the installer for the time being, because it's really too small to justify a separate patch.
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So, with the file attached, we might just say it's finally done...
We checked better, and the PAPI limitation was related only to threshold lights, meaning, you can't have PAPI if there are no threshold lights. But it's possible to have PAPI without approach lights indeed, which is what you'll find on the attached file.
The file it's the same for FS9 and FSX so, it can be used in FSX as well as it is. We'll not include in the installer for the time being, because it's really too small to justify a separate patch.
Umberto,
You guys truly are the best out there today. Looking forward to dropping this file in. Thanks for letting me stand on my soap box for a while!
Best Regards,
Kelly
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I just noticed that there is no blast shield at 9L and 27R