Author Topic: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(  (Read 9786 times)

robains

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Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« on: December 29, 2013, 09:30:07 pm »
I uninstalled FSDT Honolulu and Hawaii Airports and now once again it seems to affect my other airports, specifically FSDT JFK2 and FB KSFO ... all I see are Jetways (see attached files).

I did NOT select "Yes" to remove Add-On Manager and I did NOT select "Yes" to remove anything else ( Couatl.exe is v2.0.0.2356).  This is a recurring problem for me, whenever I uninstall one airport under the Virtuali umbrella it causes other airports to NOT show (Jetways only).

See attached images showing that the Add-On Manager sees my KSFO as Active and Installed when clearly the other images shows that I only get Jetways.

I was hoping this bug was fixed many moons ago, but sadly it is not.  Any hints on how to fix? 

This is P3DV2.

Rob.

virtuali

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 09:48:51 pm »
Quote
I did NOT select "Yes" to remove Add-On Manager and I did NOT select "Yes" to remove anything else ( Couatl.exe is v2.0.0.2356).  This is a recurring problem for me, whenever I uninstall one airport under the Virtuali umbrella it causes other airports to NOT show (Jetways only).

Doesn't happen and nobody has reported it so far. Uninstalling a single scenery won't affect the others, unless you reply YES to both above questions.

I was hoping this bug was fixed many moons ago, but sadly it is not.  Any hints on how to fix? 

There's no "bug" to be fixed, you probably have installed something using older installers. But you haven't said the most important information: do you see BOTH the "Addon Manager" and the "Couatl powered products" menus under the FSX "Addons" menu ?

In any case, whenever you install old/new installers together, the first thing to check, is to DOWNLOAD (don't use an old installer you might already have) the Stand-Alone Addon Manager AND install that one, AFTER all sceneries are already installed.

robains

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 12:08:40 am »
I had the most recent installers, also the most recent Add-On Manager.  Yes both Add-on Manager and "Couatl powered products" are listed in the Menus in P3DV2.

Please look at the original attached images, you will see that I'm in P3DV2 not FSX.  You would NOT be asking me some of these questions if you had looked at my attached images.  Look at what the Add-On manager is showing FB's KSFO as for a status.  It's clearly stating "Installed and ACTIVE" yet I only see Jetways.  If this isn't a bug, then I don't what is??  Regardless of anything else, if the Add-On manager isn't correctly identifying a product that isn't working, then how can it be reliable?

The bug is real and can be replicated.


Dave_YVR

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 02:24:43 am »
 Not trying to hijack the thread by any means, but I've just had the same thing happen to me with LAX.. The addon manager is a brand new download and still it tells me LAX is active but not installed in the scenery library, yet when I look at the library it certainly is there. I'll just have to reinstall LAX again to fix it, like the last few times it's done this.
 

F-OHPM

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2013, 06:07:39 am »
Come to think about it CYVR does this to at times (of course with the latest addon manager coutal and airport update). It annoys me but my only solution is running right through the building this for some reason makes it reappear.

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robains

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 08:15:26 am »
I re-ran the Add-On Manager installer "Run as Administrator".  I then ran the "Check for Live Updates" again.  Then restarted.  This seems to have cleared up the problem.

But I run into this problem frequently, if I uninstall just one airport it will create this problem where I only see Jetways.  I have just about all the products supported by Virtuali so there is a bug around the uninstalling of a single airport or more than one airport.

Rob

virtuali

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2013, 12:16:23 pm »
I have just about all the products supported by Virtuali so there is a bug around the uninstalling of a single airport or more than one airport.

No, there isn't, as I've said, just uninstalling a product won't affect the others. Why happened on your system might depend on something additional you did while uninstalling/reinstalling, even a while ago, like manually removing files once, which might cause uninstallers lost track to what they should do.

robains

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 07:36:55 pm »
I'm just trying to help you Umberto, if you don't want to believe me then not much I can do.  I have not messed with any files outside of the installers other than setting them to "Run as Administrator".

I think your bug revolves around one or both of the prompts during the uninstall process of a single airport.  The end user is presented with two prompts during the uninstall process, one is to remove the Add-On manager and the other is to remove another key component.  I think your problem is around the responses to these prompts.  I was very careful in making sure I answered so that neither would be removed.

But frankly, the uninstaller should be able to detect other installed Virtuali products and simply NOT offer these two prompts as they could effective disable those products and that would be a situation that shouldn't be offered to an end user -- there is NO case where an end user would want to disable all their other Virtuali products when they are just uninstalling a single airport/product.  In fact, to take the design logic one step further there really is NO instance where these two prompts provide a positive purpose.  If the Uninstaller has the appropriate code/logic to determine how many products are already installed, it would know when it's uninstalling the last and final product and do the necessary code to remove those two key components.

But again, I'm just trying to help you avoid these types of support calls.  As you can see many others have encountered the same issue, so it's not just me.

Rob
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 07:39:44 pm by robains »

virtuali

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 09:51:34 pm »
I'm just trying to help you Umberto, if you don't want to believe me then not much I can do

I obviously believe it happened TO YOU, that doesn't mean there's a problem in the installer. As I've said, there might be other reason, depending what you did *outside* the installation, that might cause this, and it's not possible to say for sure, without having checked all the history of your file operations.

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But frankly, the uninstaller should be able to detect other installed Virtuali products and simply NOT offer these two prompts as they could effective disable those products and that would be a situation that shouldn't be offered to an end user

The Uninstaller DOES the correct thing, which is ALERTING you that IF you reply YES to removing those modules you will lose your other installed products, but DOES offer you the choice to remove them anyway, because you might WANT to "clean up" your installation for many reasons. You will NOT lose the other installed product if you reply NO to both questions.

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there is NO case where an end user would want to disable all their other Virtuali products when they are just uninstalling a single airport/product.

Every time you need a complete Uninstall, this should be accessible from any Uninstaller. Would you rather have an Uninstaller that doesn't even give you the CHOICE to remove modules that you might not want to run with FSX for any reason, with the only option to manually remove files ?

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If the Uninstaller has the appropriate code/logic to determine how many products are already installed, it would know when it's uninstalling the last and final product and do the necessary code to remove those two key components.

That logic is ALREADY obviously there, and it works. If you reply NO to both questions, the Uninstaller KNOWS that the Addon Manager and the Couatl script engines are shared modules, and they are NOT removed "by default". "By default", means replying NO to both questions.

Now, it's obviously possible to use what you call "take the design logic one step further", which is a service offered by Windows and is called "Reference Counting", which is used by some Windows .DLL. Basically, every installer that needs to install a shared .DLL, will increase a counter for that file in the Windows registry, and every Uninstaller will decrease it. When the counter goes to zero, it means there's no need for that shared file, so it can be safely removed.

The obvious question would be "then why you don't use it ?" Because, of course, IT NEVER WORKS. Not in the real world. It works only in a perfect world of using never making any mistakes or never having any problems or never trying to fix problems themselves. It would be enough you remove this .DLL manually once, and the internal counter lose its sync and it's not reliable anymore. So, you will need a backup "cleaning" option anyway, which is what we have already...

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But again, I'm just trying to help you avoid these types of support calls

It's for the exact precise reason to REDUCE support, that we have an option to make a complete removal, without having to rely to automatic methods which, as I've said, works only when everything is 100% perfect.

Fact that you believe the Uninstaller has a "bug", clearly proves this. There isn't one, you just ended up in some unusual situation that might have been caused by something made in the past.

Quote
As you can see many others have encountered the same issue, so it's not just me.

No, it's just you. You are suggesting there's an Uninstaller bug, but that's not the case. Don't confuse cause with the effect. There might be many reasons for losing a scenery, but they are not caused by a problem in the Uninstaller.

As I've said, I believe YOU had a problem during the Uninstall process but, again, it's not the Uninstaller that caused it, or that cause it under normal conditions, I can't say exactly why it happened to you, but I can't see many other reports of losing a product "just" by Uninstalling another one.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 09:54:17 pm by virtuali »

robains

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2013, 01:09:06 am »
Umberto,

Please stop accusing me of doing "something outside" - I haven't.  I have no vested interest in sabotage ... which is what you seem to think I'm doing??  Honestly, I'm trying to help.

If you want to build in the option to uninstall EVERYTHING, you only need one and only one prompt "Would you like to uninstall ALL products?" - and that is only displayed to the end user IF and only IF there is more than one product installed.  Instead, you have a processing that asks the user two prompts every time they want to uninstall a single product ... and to be honest most end users probably don't even know what those two prompts are referencing.  You NEVER want to ask your users anything more than you really need to because it just allows for more errors to happen and hence more support.

As for the number of products installed, you are NOT restricted to "Reference counting" -- you have multiple options, you can run your own process from within a standard Windows installer (Microsoft's, Wise, Installshield, etc.) that doesn't use canned solutions.  Or you can go the canned solution route as each of those products offer support for dependencies (some better than others).  But the easiest solution is to check you own managed file for product count and validate each ... in fact you already do this via the Add-On Manager (extend that logic in the installer/uninstaller).

Anyway, to duplicate this error:
1.  Make sure you have Honolulu and Hawaii airports and all other FSDT and FlightBeam airports installed and up to date.
2.  In the scenery library uncheck all airports except KSFO and JFK2
3.  Exit P3DV2
4.  Run the Honolulu and Hawaii airport uninstaller (via Control Panel they will have a unique entry for P3DV2)
5.  Now run P3DV2 and start at some default airport like Minnesota St.Paul
6.  Go To Airport and select KSFO

Again, I'm trying to help, accusing me of sabotaging "something outside" isn't productive. 

If it's just me, why have others reported the same problem?

 

Hnla

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2013, 06:41:27 am »
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If it's just me, why have others reported the same problem?

Who. Show me. Show me.

I have none of the problems you describe, and I have all the Hawaii/Islands airports and have used the uninstaller countless of times.

meshman

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2013, 07:18:56 pm »
Question for Umberto. Does this person, Hnla, speak for you or your company? Is this person authorized by you to service FSDreateam customers? And if this person is not authorized by you to act in any type of official or unofficial capacity, why are you allowing "it" to do so?

virtuali

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2013, 07:35:56 pm »
Question for Umberto. Does this person, Hnla, speak for you or your company?

He's another user, like you are.

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Is this person authorized by you to service FSDreateam customers?

He's just replying to you, as an user, I don't see anything in his reply that indicates he's trying to "service" you or write on our behalf. In any case, any of this doesn't have anything to do with your issue.

You can fix it for the time being by reinstalling the Stand-Alone Addon Manager as the last thing you do.

I  found a problem with current uninstallers, and is they don't remove the scenery from the Scenery Library. It doesn't have anything to do with it with your issue, but they are all going to be updated anyway so, it's possible your issue will also disappear if you will reinstall everything with the new installers which will be available likely tomorrow.

Hnla

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2013, 09:51:16 pm »
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Is this person authorized by you to service FSDreateam customers?

I wish, but I don't think I have the devout patience that Umberto has with all the customers. Lol.


robains

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Re: Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2014, 01:56:07 am »
Patients is a two way street ... an I'm pretty much done with my patients and these products that fall under the Virtuali umbrella.  Umberto and your devote followers responses are just childish and ignorant - if you want to promote such behavior that's your choice.  My choice is to terminate any future product purchase of any vendor using Virtuali.  You pick your road, and I'll pay for mine.  And before you say, "99% of our customers aren't online" ... yeah right, I'm sure you've matched up every single paying customer to the online forum accounts ;)

So you did find a problem with the uninstaller, gee and of course it had nothing to do with what I reported, surprise surprise!

Hnla, grow up and just read the other response from other customers in this thread, in AVSIM threads, in many areas ... hiding your head in the sand does nothing to help anyone.

Rob


« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 01:58:35 am by robains »