Fix to F-18 landing gear fix?

[cfschris]

I'm referring to the .cfg edit mentioned in this thread- http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=586.0

Its great, but it makes 2 of the available catapults on the carrier unusable (you'll crash at the end of them).

Anyone know a fix so these crashes don't happen?

[cfschris]

No fix then?

[Voodoo]

I have to admit I resorted back to the original gear configuration after suffering the same problem. I sometimes managed to avoid it by pulling hard back on the stick at the end of the cat but, that's pretty unrealistic so I reverted to the original settings. Maybe that's why they set the gear in this model so high in the first place LOL

However, I have an idea that might fix the problem, but I need to find some time to sit down and experiment a bit. Give me some time to do this and I'll post back.

- Voodoo

[wilycoyote4]

I'll check, too, but could you define "crash"?  Exactly what happens?  What are the settings?  If you can, please.

[vortex_25]

I'm referring to the .cfg edit mentioned in this thread- http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=586.0

Its great, but it makes 2 of the available catapults on the carrier unusable (you'll crash at the end of them).

Anyone know a fix so these crashes don't happen?

I noticed this too after installing the gear fix.

Which 2 catapults are affected?

[Razgriz]

Am I the only one that doesn't crash?  I don't pull at all until I can regonize that my plane has dropped and I'm off the launcher.  I have full realism on.  I've tried burners and non.

[wilycoyote4]

I am adding to my previous post with a little test results. I hope this helps.  I can not state my tests offer proof of anything but I am trying to help even if the results are only my education which can me no harm.

First, I used the two missions called Carrier Tutorial and Carrier Practice.  I will test free flight next.

Second, I set realism to all sliders left completely.  After flights were completed using all 4 cats, I moved all realism sliders to the right completely.  Flights were repeated.

Third, I am using the gear modification posted on this forum and here are the numbers.

[contact_points]
;Gear
point.0=1, -18.00,   0.00, -6.60, 1600, 0, 0.6349, 75.0, 0.2000, 3.5, 0.6100,  3.0,  3.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0
//point.0=1, -18.00,   0.00, -6.60, 1600, 0, 0.6349, 75.0, 0.2000, 3.5, 0.6100,  3.0,  3.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -7.60, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.6, 0.5456,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
//point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -7.00, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0,    1.0, 1.2,    1.0,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -7.60, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.6, 0.5456,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0
//point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -7.00, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0,    1.0, 1.2,    1.0,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0

Fourth, the box "Detect crashes and Damage" is not selected and "Ignore Crashes and Damage" is selected.

Fifth, I have Vista Home Premium 32 bit and FSX is SP2 Acceleration set for DX9.  I can use DX10 but these tests do not use DX10.

So far I notice the following. 

Sliders Left
With sliders to the left fully, I have no problems in cat or trap.  I have used all four cats.  I rarely use AB because speed is too great.  I don't use AB here but did test it on the first cat to see if it was ok and it was ok with normal cat function.

Sliders Right
However, withsliders to the right fully, I notice the cat function fails if I throttle up too high into AB, that is, the cat sequence stops before I launch, the blast barrier drops and the aircraft moves without cat effect.  I may or may not drop to the sea but since the carrier has good speed, plus a headwind, and light fuel load, I usually fly away from the carrier, with the throttle already in AB, for a try at trap.

If I do not use AB, then the cat function works fine.

With sliders to the right fully, traps are likely to crash.  I must make more flights on this point.  I concentrated on cat here.

About the screenshots
The first three are a sequence showing gear positions, cat 1, sliders full left.

The 4th "full realism 183 KIAS" shows a cat with no AB on cat 2, sliders full right.

The 5th shows a cat, no AB, on cat 4, sliders full left.

For a final note, the 4th screenshot shows the horizontal stablizer has been preset for climb before cat but not at maximum climb angle.  Most of my cat launches use this preset.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[cfschris]

I'll check, too, but could you define "crash"?  Exactly what happens?  What are the settings?  If you can, please.

My settings are full realism EVERYTHING. Everything that can be checked and slid to the right, do so.

The only catapult which has no problem at all in launching is the one farthest to the left (the longest one). The second longest one may get me a crash every once in awhile. The two short ones to the right, they almost always make me crash.


And also wiley, don't mean to put you down here but I think you analyzed the situation way too much 
But, you said in your analysis that you used a light fuel load. That may be why you're not crashing as often as the rest of us. I should be able to be launched with a full fuel load without crashing.

Just about everyone else has the crashing problems, regardless of power settings. But we can all agree on that it only happens (or happens often) when realism settings are on max.

I'm waiting for some feedback from Voodoo! 

[wilycoyote4]

I'll check, too, but could you define "crash"?  Exactly what happens?  What are the settings?  If you can, please.

My settings are full realism EVERYTHING. Everything that can be checked and slid to the right, do so.

The only catapult which has no problem at all in launching is the one farthest to the left (the longest one). The second longest one may get me a crash every once in awhile. The two short ones to the right, they almost always make me crash.


And also wiley, don't mean to put you down here but I think you analyzed the situation way too much 
But, you said in your analysis that you used a light fuel load. That may be why you're not crashing as often as the rest of us. I should be able to be launched with a full fuel load without crashing.

Just about everyone else has the crashing problems, regardless of power settings. But we can all agree on that it only happens (or happens often) when realism settings are on max.

I'm waiting for some feedback from Voodoo! 

Thanks, excellent reply, also waiting for Voodoo, who seems intent on a study that takes time.  I hope all our efforts assist him -------- rather than the opposite, hehe.

There are five sliders for realism and all 5 are either fully left or fully right in my test.  I wonder how much difference can be noticed when in the game in VC or outside.

My efforts may be overdone, indeed, but good practice for me, can't get too much of that.

I used the missions to enjoy the LSO chatter, too, you see.

The carrier missions I used start with fuel at 100%, so after launch, I dump fuel, trap, and cat again with less fuel, say 60% and next time say 45%, and so on till I'm too low on fuel and use ControlX or the menu to add fuel if I want to continue the mission or restart again.  Therefore fuel on the cat varied but most were on the light side.  Throttle could be set accordingly by my judgements and experience.

I think the screenshots show gear compression position well enough.

With the speed of the carrier, which is quite fast at about 35 knots and the 10 knots headwind, cat in these two missions get a good airspeed of 45 KTs average before moving at all.

If I recall properly, the cats are numbered this way.  Facing the bow from amidship, the cat on the right is cat 1, moving left is cat 2, both are bow cats, cat 3 is further left on the angled deck and cat 4 is farthest left next to the landing lights array "the meatball" and the longest is used for the heavy aircraft sometimes depending on real conditions.

I want to add that proper sequence of launch keyboard commands may not make a difference but I'll check.

All in all, it is an interesting study.  I hope more posters will add their knowledge.  I learn so much about the Hornet and carriers on this site.

Two screenshots added from the carrier practice mission which I repeated.  The 1st is cat 2 at launch with 99% fuel and the 2nd is cat 2, same launch, same fuel, clear of the bow at 183 KIAS.  Both show the horizotal stabilizer in a climb position and no AB.  I immediately add power and raise gear to go around in the pattern for trap.  I could have used more power but the cat system seems to fail if I throttle up to AB in full realism, all sliders full right.  Anyway, that is what I call a full fuel cat that is successful.

Two more cat screenshts added in free flight using aicarriers2r2 program.  Both are low fuel.  One uses AB at full power.  Both are successful cats but no steam effect and I don't know why this effect is missing.

Whether free flight or missions, I do not seem to "crash" on any cat launch.  Free flight traps seem "rougher, even bouncing around" but that was true before I changed the contact point gear numbers.

I guess that's it for now.  Hope to hear from others and hope the info contibutes to solutions.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Voodoo]

Thanks for the detailed observations, chaps. It was very useful poring over them looking for clues that might help resolve this problem.

Unfortunately, I have tried everything I can think of ...played with Gear Contact points again, Scrape Points, checked the F18's airfile, checked through the sim.cfg file for the carrier to see if there was any way to alter the "hard deck" parameters, and spent ages trawling through the SDK for any other clues.

All to no avail. 

The best solution I can offer is, in the Realism settings, untick "Allow collisions with other aircraft". This does stop the problem, and it is the only thing I can find that has minimal effects on your other Realism settings, i.e. you can still have "Detect Damage" enabled, and you can still have all your Realism sliders over to maximum.

My gut feeling is we're going to be stuck with this compromise. If you want to have the modified gear, you have to sacrifice aircaft collisions; if you want to have aircraft collisions, you have to use the original gear settings.

Wily,
The other problem you mentioned, of the launch bar disengaging from the shuttle, is directly related to the degree to which the model is tilted by the gear modifications. I got that particular problem only very occasionally with the alternative settings but if I compressed the gear just a tiny bit further, it got a lot worse...and setting the gear compression so it looked as low as the Captain Sim F18D model made this problem constant. A marginal bit of tweaking the gear contact points in the aircraft.cfg file should eliminate that for you. Try altering the fourth parameter from -7.60 to -7.70 in the following lines:
point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -7.60, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.6, 0.5456,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -7.60, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.6, 0.5456,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0
and see if that helps.

Apart from that, sorry all...but if anyone has any "eureka" moments for anywhere else to look to solve the main problem, do shout!

[wilycoyote4]

Thanks for the detailed observations, chaps. It was very useful poring over them looking for clues that might help resolve this problem.

Wily,
The other problem you mentioned, of the launch bar disengaging from the shuttle, is directly related to the degree to which the model is tilted by the gear modifications. I got that particular problem only very occasionally with the alternative settings but if I compressed the gear just a tiny bit further, it got a lot worse...and setting the gear compression so it looked as low as the Captain Sim F18D model made this problem constant. A marginal bit of tweaking the gear contact points in the aircraft.cfg file should eliminate that for you. Try altering the fourth parameter from -7.60 to -7.70 in the following lines:
point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -7.60, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.6, 0.5456,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -7.60, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.6, 0.5456,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0
and see if that helps.

I'm doing flights now and it works.  Full AB possible and the Hornet sits waiting for cat launch as it should.  I'm using fuel at 97% to 99% as full AB is so powerful.

Thanks, that's great, and I've learned a bit more.  Hope others have also.

Screeny of cat 2 with AB in carrier practice mission with successful cat launch.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[cfschris]

You need to install the AB effects fix, wiley

[wilycoyote4]

You need to install the AB effects fix, wiley

That's news to me.  Thanks for the info.  Ok, I searched this forum and I have it now.

Thanks, cfschris and voodoo, I am certainly learning a lot here.

[Orion]

Hi everyone, I believe this is my first post here .

I've made my own mod for the gear, and it seems to work, although I'm not on full realism.

Here are the lines:

point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -7.5, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.5, 0.6,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -7.5, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0, 1.2, 1.5, 0.6,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0
//point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -7.40, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0, 0.4000, 2.5, 0.5456,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
//point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -7.40, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0, 0.4000, 2.5, 0.5456,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0

(commented out are the originals)

Feel free to try those out, hope these work .

Enjoy!

Orion

Edit (Feb 8 2014): After five and a half years... I finally reworked the contact points again.   Hopefully these are a bit better:

point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -6.8, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0, 0.4000, 1.5, 0.5456,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -6.8, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0, 0.4000, 1.5, 0.5456,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0
;point.1=1, -35.50,  -4.90, -7.40, 1600, 1, 0.6349,  0.0, 0.4000, 2.5, 0.5456,  3.9,  3.9, 2, 0.0, 0.0
;point.2=1, -35.50,   4.90, -7.40, 1600, 2, 0.6349,  0.0, 0.4000, 2.5, 0.5456,  3.7,  3.7, 3, 0.0, 0.0

[Orion]

Bump.

Anyone try those?