Crowded deck, Clara ball!

[GOONIE]

Hey,
Wondered if anyone else has this issue, when using Javiers Nimitz with the crowded deck config, basically any config that is not an empty deck setup, I cannot see the meatball when in the groove, the ball is blocked by one of the aircraft parked on the deck for most of the approach.

I really like the look of the crowded deck on the carrier but if you can't see the meatball what's the point? Has anyone else experienced this? Any fixes besides going with the empty deck version?

Thanks,
Capt

[wilycoyote4]

capthaltli ----

I don't know how many pages you have for the AI Ships menu.  If that menu has all the Javier you probably have the 1st Javier entry as USS Nimitz (CVN68) (Empty) on page one.  

On the last page are 2 Recovery and the T-45C Carrier Qualifications.  These should have good visibility.

In between are several crowded deck and several configuration entrys.  Anyway, harder to see the ball.  I'll try to check on page 2 carriers in this week.  Others may have done or will try to see which can be used.

I have had a small pm exchange, on the SOH Forum, with one of the upcoming payware Big E team about this visibility issue.  Based on the reply I assume no static aircraft of any type will be parked too close to the lights nor block or be too close to cat 4.

[GOONIE]

Thanks, Wily.

Just wish there was a way to delete/remove the aircraft parked port side of CAT 4... I guess it could be worse, could go Clara Ship as this EA-6B pilot did at night due to a seat malfunction (page 20); http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Documents/media/approach/2012/App_Mar-Apr_2012.pdf 

-CAPT

[Sludge]

CAPT...

On the last page are 2 Recovery and the T-45C Carrier Qualifications.  These should have good visibility.

As WILY said, the T-45 CQ is a good one and that's what I use for my test setup.

I can send you my modded .BGL that has a Javier T-45C CQ carrier just off NAS North Island heading 335 deg/15kts at 8:05L/Jul2012 and 20:05L/Jul2012. You can set the wind up properly (I use 326@12kts), save it, and then jump into your saved flight anytime. Makes for great Case I (day VFR) or III (night) carrier testing/quals, all you have to do is select the aircraft and/or environmentals, then launch right out of NASNI Rwy18 and the carrier is right there, visible from the runway. The carrier will keep on that heading up to Camp Pendleton's south airfield, so you can do a whole buncha traps before the carrier BRC and wind (-9 BRC) dont match up.

Later
Sludge

[GOONIE]

Thanks, Sludge

I definitely like the T-45 qual carrier, and use it when flying the T-45 (use AI carriers to place the carrier into the wind off Oceana). However, most of my flying is done in the legacy hornet, and I really would like to use one of the carriers with hornets and prowlers on deck, while also being able to see the ball. I remember Javier (a long time ago) said he was working on 1960-70 vietnam era carrier(s), not sure whatever happened to that project.

Still Javiers carrier is a major improvement over FSX Accel carrier, just not sure why you would have jets blocking the view of the meatball when in the groove. 

-CAPT

[DigitAL]

I like to use the configuration 1 option when I bring up AI Carriers.  There aren't any obstructions from what I can see on approach.  The only problems I do have is that whenever I make my turn to finals from downwind and when I can see the "round down" it always puts me at .8nm and vLSO doesn't pick up my approach at all which leads to my other problem; my average groove time is around 28-29 secs.  Are these situated by program limitations or am I doing something wrong?

[Victory103]

Is your ship moving or stationary? Since I was a kid flying around the boat, I've always read unofficially to use the round down as my abeam call and start the turn.

[DigitAL]

It's a moving boat.  I've come across several opinions about using the round down as a visual marker, but equally about flying to .1nm past abeam to start the turn to final.  If I fly .1nm it puts me at the 28-29sec time in groove, if I use the round down it puts me around 15-16sec time in groove (yeah i used a stopwatch to time it...lol) but I don't get a grade with vLSO.  Maybe I'm turning too steep using the round down and not steep enough using the .1nm method?

[GOONIE]

OK, CVN68_2 or CVN69_2 seem to work. See pictures.

CAPT

[wilycoyote4]

good screenys

[SpazSinbad]

'DigitAL' said: "It's a moving boat.  I've come across several opinions about using the round down as a visual marker, but equally about flying to .1nm past abeam to start the turn to final.  If I fly .1nm it puts me at the 28-29sec time in groove, if I use the round down it puts me around 15-16sec time in groove (yeah i used a stopwatch to time it...lol) but I don't get a grade with vLSO.  Maybe I'm turning too steep using the round down and not steep enough using the .1nm method?"

Advice you have been given probably assumes some given conditions (in real world?). It is possible to adjust base turn to another position if your groove length proves to be too long in the circumstances (or your WOD can be adjusted down). I have read about other aircraft turning at the LSO platform (probably older aircraft landing on older carriers) but this illustrates that one has to adjust to achieve the desired outcome. Anyway give turning base earlier a try. HTH.

Pilots experienced under differing WOD conditions will adjust their base turn as required - hence good to know WOD before the break.

[Sludge]

Digit...

Maybe I'm turning too steep using the round down and not steep enough using the .1nm method?

Yes, you've seemed to stumble onto the right answer for FSX. The best I can tell, if you EASILY roll into a 20-25 AoB bank (and on-speed) at the round-down and hold that 'til the 90, this should set you up for a better start. At the 90, you should be around 1.2NM passing into 1.1 and then as you cross "the 45" (at 1.0/0.9), your TACAN pointer should come across the velocity vector/E-Bracket at a 45 deg angle from high right to lower left. This will show you to keep your turn in and that you should roll out on final bearing as needed around 0.7NM HUD TACAN.

Those are the "training wheel" numbers for the pattern that I try to do and it usually works. BTW, I have 27 kts WoD (15 kts ship's speed/12 kts wind down the angled deck) total.

Hope that helps.

Later
Sludge

[Victory103]

Pulled this out of NATOPS for Hornet.

With a 30-knot wind over the deck begin the 180° turn to the final approach when approximately
abeam the LSO platform.

[SpazSinbad]

Thought it looked familiar. :-)

Legacy Hornet NATOPS page 355

"8.2.10 Landing Pattern. Refer to Chapter 4, for carrier operating limitations.

CAUTION
Carrier landing with more than 500 pounds in the centerline fuel tank is prohibited.

While maneuvering to enter the traffic pattern, attempt to determine the sea state. This information will be of value in predicting problems that may be encountered during the approach and landing.

Enter the carrier landing pattern (figure 8-2) with the hook down. Make a level break from a course parallel to the Base Recovery Course (BRC), close aboard to the starboard of the ship. Below 250 knots lower the gear and flaps. Descend to 600 feet when established downwind and prior to the 180° position. Complete the landing checklist and crosscheck angle-of-attack and proper airspeed. Pitch trim is set to 8.1° AOA when autopilot is disengaged while in the PA configuration if AOA is greater than 6.0°.

With a 30-knot wind over the deck begin the 180° turn to the final approach when approximately abeam the LSO platform. When the meatball is acquired, transmit “Call sign, Hornet, Ball or CLARA, fuel state (nearest 100 pounds) and auto” (if using ATC for approach). Refer to figure 8-3 for a typical Carrier Controlled Approach."

[Sludge]

Herb...

Yeah, it looks like a problem installing Javier's carrier over the default carrier. I'm not sure how you can fix that...

Later
Sludge