Next military jet for acceleration

[SUBS17]

...yeah...I like what Chams said, but do it within a different realm of military aviation.  Landing a jet on a boat has been covered (for the most part).  The way I see it, the only reason the Tomcat is really being considered is because it so popular.  It really doesnt bring anything new to the table.  But seeing how you are so defensive on this post, I am guessing you guys have already started getting you hands dirty on making a F-14.

FACT: Your fact is wrong.  There are a ton of sessions on the multiplayer that say "NO HORNETS or MILITARY AIRCRAFT", and they are usually the sessions that are a little more based on realism (i.e. Virtual Airlines/Pro ATC).  I doubt that's because they want combat and sim capabilities combined.  Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE FAN of military avaition and it played a huge role in my commission in the Navy, but the mindset that most people have when they jump into a fighter/attack aircraft is to do dogfights and bombing runs.  That aspect needs to be seperated from those who jump in a session with a Cessna wanting to practice ATC calls and procedure for an upcoming checkride. 

Virtuali:

 I love the product that you guys created with the Hornet, and I have no doubt that you guys will make an incredible Tomcat as well.  It's because of your Hornet, that I have such a bad addiction to FSX.  I typically spend 3-4 hours a day flying and practicing formation flying/maneuvers.  And I can't tell you how many times I will have people constantly zoom right through the middle of our formation with full burners and smoke on.  It's to the point were I usually have to turn the Collision option off because it would only be a matter of time before someone comes and plows into my aircraft.  Now imagine how the virtual airline guy or the young gentleman who is practicing for his checkride would feel after his aircraft gets shot down out of the sky after his 2 hour commute.

As far your comment about this section being the most visited on your site...I think it's a cry from the public that it's time you guys and microsoft get together make a highly realistic and detailed (like FSX) COMBAT SIMULATOR which utilizes modern military aircraft in which you guys can make continuous addons for.  That way if guys want to fly formation in F-16s over Edwards AFB, they can.  If they want to do a bombing mission over a modern warzone with an A-10, they can.  If they want to conduct a carrier training mission in the F-14, they can.  Point is, if they want to blow stuff up, they can!  It doens't have to be simulated or imagined.  Seeing the missle flying off the jet or seeing the explosion of the paveway is much more gratifiying than having to imagine it.  And it could all be done, without upsetting the "private/corporate/commercial" side of the simulatoion world.

What the problem is with MP is that you are getting inexperienced pilots flying hornets in free flight where as there are no dedicated MP missions for the hornet and also a lack of decent trainning missions to teach pilots the right way of doing stuff. There also needs to be rewards etc for good flying which unfortunately has not happened with acceleration. Its no big deal if guys setup servers not allowing the hornet since they are using FS for their own purpose and its the server owners right to fly the way he wants. Compare FSX acceleration to Allied Forces online in FSX the player has only 2 options for the hornet 1/ do the canyon race, 2/ fly aimlessly around from airport to airport.
Now what happens in F4AF, players meet in the lobby and a mission is selected from a campaign where a flight and package are selected. Pilots select their position in the flight(flight lead, 2,3,4) they then check the breifing and recce the tgt and take off times are checked plus load out is setup. Flight comits to a ramp start and cold start their aircraft on the ramp.(15-30mins) Flight taxis to runway after permission from tower and hold short. Flight takes off and fly in formation to the tgt or they might refuel enroute etc. So 2 options 1 fly aimlessly from airport to airport or do a canyon race and thats it. You could do formations in FSX but in my experience so far its MP code needs tweaking to make it more dedicated for that sort of flying. If they made carrierops MP then it would drastically change the MP experience for FSX for the hornet.

[SUBS17]

But they are doing this first
http://www.simhq.com/_downloads/air/black_shark/DCS_video2.zip

I saw it, too, and the review. Impressive! Everything that the real ship has it's there! I already knew it but, now that I'm seeing it in simhq I'm beginning to be scared.

Thats nothing wait until you see what else is on the horizon imagine jet combat aircraft with that sort of detail on a Global map like FSX in dx10 as well. Although at this stage Black Shark would be considered very close to the same level of complexity IMO. Just for a hint check the SIMHQ calender
http://www.simhq.com/_calendar/calendar.html
And its 2 seater as well   

[jimi08]

Subs,

I like your reasoning and I agree with it.  Except all the things you mentioned would be better for a combat sim.  Just like Falcon 4.  Notice how detailed F4 is, but it doesn't contain anything for Civilian aviation. You mentioned that the earlier versions of FS used to have air combat...I'm pretty sure there was a good reason they got rid of it.  It's probably the same reason Microsoft decided to make a SEPARATE sim that DOES feature aircraft with guns and bombs.  It's called Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator.

[SUBS17]

Actually you could easily put civilian aviation in F4 and what you fail to see regarding AFs missions in MP is that it is actually exactly what is missing in FSX accelerations world for MP. You see there is only so many times you can fly from point A to point B before it becomes boring alot of the relevant trainning features and the main purpose of accelerations Hornet is to be able to land on a Carrier which you cannot do in MP. Other aspects are also things related to flying real Hornets that don't actually involve using weapons such as flight trainning missions and formations for MP. The other thing about your posts is that they contradict what you just stated you on one hand wish for FSX to have a combat element and on the other hand oppose a military sim that has not modeled civ aviation.

You mentioned that the earlier versions of FS used to have air combat...I'm pretty sure there was a good reason they got rid of it.

As far your comment about this section being the most visited on your site...I think it's a cry from the public that it's time you guys and microsoft get together make a highly realistic and detailed (like FSX) COMBAT SIMULATOR which utilizes modern military aircraft in which you guys can make continuous addons for.

So which is it dude do you want a combat aspect or not?

[jimi08]

Subs,
The first point you brought up is the same point I am trying to get across.  Just like you stated about flying from point A to point B and how it eventually becomes boring, I feel the same way about making the next aircraft a Tomcat for FSX Acceleration.  The point is, you are doing the same thing.  Whether it's in a Hornet or Tomcat.  You are still either flying from point A to point B, landing on the carrier, or flying formation with people in multiplayer.  The only thing that changes is the type of aircraft that you are doing it in.  Which I feel will get boring pretty quickly after the "Wow, I'm flying a F-14 Tomcat" factor dies out.

As far as the last part of your post.  I think you misunderstood me.  I DEFINITELY WANT COMBAT!!!  But the more though I put into this topic the more I feel that instead of fiddling around with adding military aircraft into the world of FSX, Microsoft/Dreamteam/etc. needs to go ahead and just make a new, full scale Combat simulator.  It would have all the realism of FSX, but built and designed from the ground up for the combat side.  Imagine a sim that would have the flight & avionic modeling and realism of Falcon 4.0, the multiplayer smoothness of LOMAC and the worldwide accessibility and weather dynamics of FSX!  An with FS Dreamteam by our side, we can be assured that we have a nice plethora of quality aircraft.  Not just different blocks of F-16s.  If you want to do high altitude bombing with a B-52, or it you want to simply do donuts in the sky with a KC-135 while refueling a flight of F-15s, you can.  If you want to practice carrier approaches with a RIO in the back or if you want to practice spin recovery procedures in a TexanII, you can.  If you want to grab a couple of P-51s and stafe some trains, you can.  Instead of having tutorials for x-wind landings, there will be tutorials an how to do the carrier break (aka the overhead).  Most of the missions will be military related, from tactical flight formations, to Air Combat Maneuvering, to Aerial refueling.  If you want to drop bombs or fire cannons,  you can....with your online buddies at your side!  Leave FSX for the civilian/corporate/commercial guys and build a new, expandable combat sim for the guys that wanna do the military thing.

[JamesChams]

Guys,

Please let's stop this fruitless debate.  They already told us "what" and "why"...  I don't believe that continuing to debate this will change anything.  Many of the things we all want are just not availiable right now.  Perhaps MS will make that a reality at some point and I'm sure that FSDream Team staff will do accordingly.  But, for now, let's just agree to table this discussion. 

What do you all say?

[Razgriz]

A very new "Modern" fighter.  The Tomcat has had its day.

[JamesChams]

A very new "Modern" fighter.  The Tomcat has had its day.

Apparently, Not!  They're still considering it.  The AV-8 isn't a modern aircraft either; Personally, I would like them to make both but, they won't do it... 

[Razgriz]

I don't want a harrier   No vectored thrust in FSX so its pointless.

[SUBS17]

Guys,

Please let's stop this fruitless debate.  They already told us "what" and "why"...  I don't believe that continuing to debate this will change anything.  Many of the things we all want are just not availiable right now.  Perhaps MS will make that a reality at some point and I'm sure that FSDream Team staff will do accordingly.  But, for now, let's just agree to table this discussion. 

What do you all say?

I agree FSX is not the place for air combat but this sim here is:
FighterOps interview

20mm: Another topic that the community is interested in that of third party add-ons and mods. I gather that there will be an SDK toolkit to access these add-ons, and that FO will approve and distribute them. Is that about right, or is it somewhat more complicated?

Rick: When appropriate, we will release a set of tools to modify existing content and create new content for the program. The tools will verify the integrity of the created content before exporting to the game format. More strict integrity checks can optionally be done by XSI to make the add-on officially approved. All required measures will be taken to make sure that multi-player sessions with user-created mods are problem free.

There is also the first video ever released in the above sim.
Fo video

They also sent 2 of the developers up in a T38 to experience 1st hand what its like to fly jet fighters etc. Hopefully one day some one will add the F-14 to this sim.

[SUBS17]

A very new "Modern" fighter.  The Tomcat has had its day.

Its still in service in Iran but its unclear how many they still have flying.

[SUBS17]

Subs,
The first point you brought up is the same point I am trying to get across.  Just like you stated about flying from point A to point B and how it eventually becomes boring, I feel the same way about making the next aircraft a Tomcat for FSX Acceleration.  The point is, you are doing the same thing.  Whether it's in a Hornet or Tomcat.  You are still either flying from point A to point B, landing on the carrier, or flying formation with people in multiplayer.  The only thing that changes is the type of aircraft that you are doing it in.  Which I feel will get boring pretty quickly after the "Wow, I'm flying a F-14 Tomcat" factor dies out.

As far as the last part of your post.  I think you misunderstood me.  I DEFINITELY WANT COMBAT!!!  But the more though I put into this topic the more I feel that instead of fiddling around with adding military aircraft into the world of FSX, Microsoft/Dreamteam/etc. needs to go ahead and just make a new, full scale Combat simulator.  It would have all the realism of FSX, but built and designed from the ground up for the combat side.  Imagine a sim that would have the flight & avionic modeling and realism of Falcon 4.0, the multiplayer smoothness of LOMAC and the worldwide accessibility and weather dynamics of FSX!  An with FS Dreamteam by our side, we can be assured that we have a nice plethora of quality aircraft.  Not just different blocks of F-16s.  If you want to do high altitude bombing with a B-52, or it you want to simply do donuts in the sky with a KC-135 while refueling a flight of F-15s, you can.  If you want to practice carrier approaches with a RIO in the back or if you want to practice spin recovery procedures in a TexanII, you can.  If you want to grab a couple of P-51s and stafe some trains, you can.  Instead of having tutorials for x-wind landings, there will be tutorials an how to do the carrier break (aka the overhead).  Most of the missions will be military related, from tactical flight formations, to Air Combat Maneuvering, to Aerial refueling.  If you want to drop bombs or fire cannons,  you can....with your online buddies at your side!  Leave FSX for the civilian/corporate/commercial guys and build a new, expandable combat sim for the guys that wanna do the military thing.

Theres already a couple of sims in development at the moment which will deliver in this area and they are the DCS series by Eagle Dynamics which at the moment are making the KA50 but will later do A-10, AH64, Hind, F-15, F-16 and Mig29. There is also FighterOps which is still a while off but will feature Texan 2 and T38C fully modeled 2 seaters UPT and IFF trainning modules. And they are the basis for combat addon F-15C/D/E, F-16C, A-10A and later other addons may include a Naval addon. As for any FS combat you are quite limited as its not designed for it as you know the only way to do that would be to use MSESP I think and it would take quite a long time to develop considering how complex a jet combat flight sim is. As for your MP issues I have to suggest that you should join a virtual squadron. I myself fly with VFA35 online and we use F4AF, OF, lockon and occassionally Janes F/A-18 and we are also part of a large online virtual Navy. At the moment Arma is probably the only sim that allows pilots and marines to work together(eg ground lasing tgts for LGBs) in MP but hopefully FO will go that path later so our Navy/Marines and Pilots can work together online. Hopefully companys like FSdreamteam would make quality addons for FO later on with aircraft such as the Tomcat and Hornet etc. 80s cold war Naval combat mod would rock.

[Intrepid]

I have to admit ,this is all very interesting .I too would be very VERY excited of the prospect of a full
combat version of FSX.Unfortunatly the thought of updating my computer once again (for no other
reason than to run the latest sim) is ,or would be a difficult sell.I think and would prefer add ons along
the lines of the Acceleration pack ,with "enhancements" of course.The programming expertise of Aces
should find within there capability to produce a quality millitary expansion pack and that way those who
prefer civillian only, need not buy
My 2 cents
Randy           

[crim3]

I agree FSX is not the place for air combat but this sim here is:
FighterOps interview

Some people say that fighter ops is genuine "vaporware". At least they have a video now, but still they have to prove they are really producing something.

[JamesChams]

I agree FSX is not the place for air combat but this sim here is:
FighterOps interview

Some people say that fighter ops is genuine "vaporware". At least they have a video now, but still they have to prove they are really producing something.

crim3,
  Where might I find this video that you are refering to?

Thank you.