vAirTanker Vs vLSO

[Mickey_Techy]

Dear FSXNP,

I came across a suggestion by a gentleman who goes by the nickname of 'Livingstone' on VRS forums today. Please refer the following thread http://forums.vrsimulations.com/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4289&p=58210#p58210.

His original post is about five hours ago, and I was thinking that LivingStone would have already made a post on this forum by now. But, since he has not, I decided to take the initiative. This is not my idea, it's LivingStone's; though, I'm wondering, why did I not think about it earlier.

After the stupendous success of vLSO, do you think it is possible for you to make another similar program called vAirTanker (or something like that) for Air-to-Air refueling Ops. The program would 'sense' the fighter's position from 80nm inbound, and make correct R/T calls to vector the fighter in, all the way till air refueling is complete, and then provide debrief on the quantity of fuel taken, the time taken for refuelling, time taken from Pre-contact etc.

Just wondering, if it can be done, and if yes, will it?

[SUBS17]

There is a mission related to inflight refuelling for DCS A-10C which is payware. I haven't flown it yet but the guy who made it also did the BFT missions campaign which trains you to fly realistically. I doubt you would have a debrief specifically on refuelling on its own as a whole an entire flight is what is in a debrief not just refuelling etc. The process for refuelling is started with an AWACs call from there you would follow the vector by the AWACs to the Tanker. The vector can be either bullseye or Altitude/heading and then you start looking for it with your radar or IRL probably could already see it on the HSD by datalink or use TACAN as well. Joining up you request to refuel and the whole flight refuels moving from right wing to the left wing after you've refuelled. Its possible to have an AWACs mod made for FSX that could give you a vector to a tanker and its also possible to have a mission with all the above features in mp. As vector to carrier is possible in AI CARRIERs, a tanker is no different. 

[Victory103]

SUBS17, good point and after seeing this post I was wondering if AICarriers can do the same with a tanker. Lately I have been using AICarriers to place sling loads in FSX, using the same system one would use to position the ships. I've added the freeware refuel gauge found in the Sludge Bug to all my AAR capable jets, both boom and drogue. As far as comms, there isn't much after getting vectors to the tanker and then once in position.

[Jonathan livingston]

Mickey_Techy, thanks for your post.

My purpose was : "just an idea" ...
I agree : we can find plenty of missions with carrier and tanker. I think that vLSO is awesome and when i said awesome, i mean : 1) it can work in free flight with your own missions and you don't need fixed missions, 2) it works in multiplayers or alone, 3) it can provide log, debrief, evaluations and statistics, ... 4) it adds realistic effects, 5) it's very simple to install.
And I think that i'm not alone to think like that.
That's all. Just an idea.
Anyways. Thanks for vLSO.

[Paddles]

Guys,
That's a good idea. Actually, a tanker request is already on my to-do list  This gonna be an organic tanking, i.e. a navy aircraft with a buddy tank, or something, circling above the carrier. No USAF jumbos... 

[Mickey_Techy]

Guys,
That's a good idea. Actually, a tanker request is already on my to-do list  This gonna be an organic tanking, i.e. a navy aircraft with a buddy tank, or something, circling above the carrier. No USAF jumbos... 

Always knew you will like the idea FSXNP

Whenever it happens, I know it will be awesome.

[SUBS17]

Guys,
That's a good idea. Actually, a tanker request is already on my to-do list  This gonna be an organic tanking, i.e. a navy aircraft with a buddy tank, or something, circling above the carrier. No USAF jumbos... 

The ideal way to go is talk to Orion and make a single player and MP version of a mission. You could add AI aircraft taking off and landing etc. Such things add immersion but you would want a carrier ATC freq as well as AI calls tied in with MP calls.

[Paddles]

SUBS,
I see... But this program is not mission-oriented. It can be used anywhere in the world provided there's a Nimitz class carrier somewhere near, put there either by AICarriers or by a mission, doesn't matter.  Organic tanking will be just an option, so you'll be able to use it or to tank from any other AI aircraft, hanging around.

[Jonathan livingston]

SUBS,
I see... But this program is not mission-oriented. It can be used anywhere in the world provided there's a Nimitz class carrier somewhere near, put there either by AICarriers or by a mission, doesn't matter.  Organic tanking will be just an option, so you'll be able to use it or to tank from any other AI aircraft, hanging around.

Thanks fsxnp, it's why so many people like vLSO ...

[Sludge]

SUBS...

I haven't flown it yet but the guy who made it also did the BFT missions campaign which trains you to fly realistically. I doubt you would have a debrief specifically on refuelling on its own as a whole an entire flight is what is in a debrief not just refuelling etc. The process for refuelling is started with an AWACs call from there you would follow the vector by the AWACs to the Tanker.

Just to help you out... its as realistic as 'simmers' can get. To clarify, its NOT AWACs, its AWACS. AWACS (airborne warning and control system) is what E-3s are called here at Tinker and AirForce-wide. Also, AWACS gives BRAA (NOT BullsEye) for point outs ... 'til the receiver (usually fighter) calls contact with the tanker and then its all on the receiver from there to make the tanker intercept happen. One exception is that for aircraft w/out an A/A Radar, AWACS can provide CLOSE CONTROL p/fighter's request. Rare but does happen. The easy way to do that would be for the CA (controlling agency) to give receiver an initial BRAA point out and vector; player matches that vector and responds... then at 20 NM, CA gives a vector; player matches/responds... at 10NM, CA gives vector; player matches/responds.. at 6NM, CA vectors receiver onto tanker's heading and calls "final turn"; player matches/responds and when sighted tanker calls "visual". Keep in mind, "Visual" call is for a visual on FRIENDLY aircraft, "Tally" call is for visual on ENEMY aircraft... just as friendlies give altitude in "ANGELS" and give enemy altitude as the whole word (ie, 28000="twenty-eight thousand").

To make a realistic flow, I would suggest that the player be given an "interface" that allows them to call some outside CA (AWACS, E-2C/D, CATCC, whoever) for vectors and then complete the "loop" once the player calls "contact" on the requested tanker. If needed, I can provide realistic comms and flow for the event.

Later
Sludge

[SUBS17]

SUBS,
I see... But this program is not mission-oriented. It can be used anywhere in the world provided there's a Nimitz class carrier somewhere near, put there either by AICarriers or by a mission, doesn't matter.  Organic tanking will be just an option, so you'll be able to use it or to tank from any other AI aircraft, hanging around.

Thats an ideal situation where it can be placed anywhere and have the AI aircraft spawn automatically. You would then have an immersive carrier which functions independently in FSX. Although for MP you would need a mission for it to work in MP. You could build on it to so start with one fleet a tanker then work up to packages taking off and landing, ground crew guiding AI and MP flights to CAT. etc. Radio calls in MP for both AI and MP flights.

[SUBS17]

SUBS...

I haven't flown it yet but the guy who made it also did the BFT missions campaign which trains you to fly realistically. I doubt you would have a debrief specifically on refuelling on its own as a whole an entire flight is what is in a debrief not just refuelling etc. The process for refuelling is started with an AWACs call from there you would follow the vector by the AWACs to the Tanker.

Just to help you out... its as realistic as 'simmers' can get. To clarify, its NOT AWACs, its AWACS. AWACS (airborne warning and control system) is what E-3s are called here at Tinker and AirForce-wide. Also, AWACS gives BRAA (NOT BullsEye) for point outs ... 'til the receiver (usually fighter) calls contact with the tanker and then its all on the receiver from there to make the tanker intercept happen. One exception is that for aircraft w/out an A/A Radar, AWACS can provide CLOSE CONTROL p/fighter's request. Rare but does happen. The easy way to do that would be for the CA (controlling agency) to give receiver an initial BRAA point out and vector; player matches that vector and responds... then at 20 NM, CA gives a vector; player matches/responds... at 10NM, CA gives vector; player matches/responds.. at 6NM, CA vectors receiver onto tanker's heading and calls "final turn"; player matches/responds and when sighted tanker calls "visual". Keep in mind, "Visual" call is for a visual on FRIENDLY aircraft, "Tally" call is for visual on ENEMY aircraft... just as friendlies give altitude in "ANGELS" and give enemy altitude as the whole word (ie, 28000="twenty-eight thousand").

To make a realistic flow, I would suggest that the player be given an "interface" that allows them to call some outside CA (AWACS, E-2C/D, CATCC, whoever) for vectors and then complete the "loop" once the player calls "contact" on the requested tanker. If needed, I can provide realistic comms and flow for the event.

Later
Sludge

Im not sure but I think some aircraft already have TACAN for tankers work with the VRS Superhornet etc. It would be cool if you guys put your ideas together to make a realistic radio/procedure for the carrierops in FSX go for it. It would be even better if it worked in mp and all players could hear each others calls on the radio on the set freq like in Falcon.

[Sludge]

SUBS...

Thats an ideal situation where it can be placed anywhere and have the AI aircraft spawn automatically. You would then have an immersive carrier which functions independently in FSX. Although for MP you would need a mission for it to work in MP. You could build on it to so start with one fleet a tanker then work up to packages taking off and landing, ground crew guiding AI and MP flights to CAT. etc. Radio calls in MP for both AI and MP flights.

Yeah, would be good, but right now I'm working on my mods/tweaking, along with the vLSO testing for Serge. Maybe when that's done, something can be worked on along those lines... but more simplified. You are definately asking alot of just a few people. Again, you have to remember, this isn't a DEVELOPMENT TEAM, its a few people (mostly Serge) putting out programs FOR FREE. I mean, the whole ground crew guiding AI and whatnot is a complete Christmas wishlist item for a full development team, much less Serge alone. Just look at what it took the FSDT PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT TEAM to make their ground crew program for airports...

It would be even better if it worked in mp and all players could hear each others calls on the radio on the set freq like in Falcon.

So please keep the initial ideas simple (one at a time) and then down the road, as the idea becomes a working, proven program, you can add to your "Serge can you" wishlist. Cool?

Later
Sludge

[SUBS17]

Yep sounds good, BTW I've heard someones already working on a ground crew mod for carriers so that may not be a problem.

[Sludge]

SUBS...

Yep sounds good, BTW I've heard someones already working on a ground crew mod for carriers so that may not be a problem.

Hope so, that would be awesome if someone could get that to work like the ground taxi cueing system thats built into FSX. Or something similar.

Later
Sludge