Author Topic: Sludge Hornet F/A-18  (Read 40762 times)

wilycoyote4

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2012, 12:03:21 am »
sludge---
did I miss it,  how many files should be in the basic folder

Johan

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2012, 02:27:28 am »
sludge---
did I miss it,  how many files should be in the basic folder

You should have 7.

Johan

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2012, 02:52:34 am »
Wily...

I dont think you missed anything, was just making sure Johan had the right effects in the FSX\Effects folder. So unless you are missing some effects, you should be fine.

Later
Sludge

wilycoyote4

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2012, 06:08:04 am »
ok, have 7

heyvern69

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2012, 05:00:23 pm »
Is this just a test for the FX version?  Are the "basic" versions going to get an upgrade too?


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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2012, 09:49:53 pm »
HVern...

Is this just a test for the FX version?  Are the "basic" versions going to get an upgrade too?

For now, this is a test of the FX version. I test that version to make sure everything works correctly, as it has everything... and if it tests correctly, the other versions will work. All the Sludge versions (Basic/FX and CaptSim Delta Basic/FX) will be incorporated, once flight testing is complete.

Later
Sludge

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2012, 09:49:15 pm »
Fellas...

OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.

Here's a few observations that I got and will be working to mod as I get more time.

My earlier assumptions that the FCS will help keep the pilot out of trouble (dangerous AoA, low energy state, stall conditions) were COMPELETELY WRONG. The legacy Hornet FCS is there to give the pilot what he asks for to the max extent possible. Whether this gets the jet into an out-of-control state is irrelevant, the FCS will give the pilot what he asks for (stick/throttle inputs) the best it can at the given time.

Also, I realized why the Hornet has two flight modes (UA/up-and-away; PA/powered approach), because the real Hornet behaves VERY DIFFERENTLY in those regimes. For FSX modding/tweaking purposes, Id consider UA above 250, clean... and PA below 250/clean or dirty. In the UA mode, the Hornet is quite nimble in its handling and can grab/hold commanded angles of bank very easily. Snap roll to 80 deg and pulling some Gs is quite easy to maintain. That is until you get below 250. Which happens really quick, if you sustain max G. The Hornet will easily bleed off from 450kts to less than 200kts and high AoA (25-30 units). You'll soon find the Hornet handling feels "slushy" and takes a very DEFT TOUCH to fly well. This is what I'm guessing Mike was talking about from his sim time. The Hornet is quite fickle and DOES NOT like BIG, HAM-FISTED stick inputs in this regime.  I'll try to make my mods based on this from here on out. In addition, the last Sludge Test Bird was much closer to what Mike and Chris described and what I experienced in the sim: if you are trimmed correctly, you can fly a pass using VERY LITTLE vertical stick inputs. The throttle will control glideslope ALMOST exclusively as the correct trim will keep you on speed. I'll keep this aspect but will be tweaking the .AIR file to model the "slushy" feel to a greater extent than what I've done.

The hard part will be to find an FSX BALANCE between the UA and PA modes, because the .AIR file is still quite hard to manipulate in one area (dogfighting vs. carrier pattern) without affecting the other. But I now know that I will try to model the systems to what the jet CAN DO and not "protecting" the pilot from getting the Hornet into a bad situation, as I used to do.

Also, there are some software changes to the HUD that I'll try to incorporate in the next edition. First is that below 1000' AGL, the HUD displays BARO ALT in the ALT BOX and RDR ALT just below without a BOX and with an R next to it. In addition, as heard previous by other guys that flew the sim, when you are in PA mode and trim up/down, you see the AoA you are trimming to just above the TCN on the HUD... it stays for about 5 secs and then disappears. Will try to integrate this, once the "trim to AoA" problem Jimi is working on is solved.

Things we CANT CHANGE.

The VC physical HUD brackets/AoA indexer and how wrong its been modeled. At the sim and the Blues El Centro airshow, in the static display aircraft, the Hornet HUD physical brackets are NOT directly parallel. They are splayed outwards approx 5-10 degrees. Since I'm at work, I can't post my pictures, but in comparison, the T-45 HUD brackets are directly parallel and Dino's model is correct; whereas the Hornet models I've flown all assumed the HUD brackets are directly parallel (think railroad tracks) and this is not the case. Also, the AoA Indexer is MICROSCOPIC in comparison to what it is in the real Hornet cockpit. I mean, in the real cockpit, its at least 3x as small as the Hornet VC and its imbedded in the physical brackets, not sticking out. You barely notice it, except when its activated.

Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some  visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
 
Nor can we make two separate flight modes that make dogfighting and good carrier pattern handling just like the real thing. Just not possible with FSX and the default Hornet because its a constant balancing act/trade-off between getting it close enough yet still giving both modes the justice they deserve.

Later
Sludge

wilycoyote4

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2012, 10:45:25 pm »
AMAZING-----CONGRATS !
Great news and even I am jealous.

Razgriz

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2012, 10:58:05 pm »
Fellas...

OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.

Here's a few observations that I got and will be working to mod as I get more time.

My earlier assumptions that the FCS will help keep the pilot out of trouble (dangerous AoA, low energy state, stall conditions) were COMPELETELY WRONG. The legacy Hornet FCS is there to give the pilot what he asks for to the max extent possible. Whether this gets the jet into an out-of-control state is irrelevant, the FCS will give the pilot what he asks for (stick/throttle inputs) the best it can at the given time.

Also, I realized why the Hornet has two flight modes (UA/up-and-away; PA/powered approach), because the real Hornet behaves VERY DIFFERENTLY in those regimes. For FSX modding/tweaking purposes, Id consider UA above 250, clean... and PA below 250/clean or dirty. In the UA mode, the Hornet is quite nimble in its handling and can grab/hold commanded angles of bank very easily. Snap roll to 80 deg and pulling some Gs is quite easy to maintain. That is until you get below 250. Which happens really quick, if you sustain max G. The Hornet will easily bleed off from 450kts to less than 200kts and high AoA (25-30 units). You'll soon find the Hornet handling feels "slushy" and takes a very DEFT TOUCH to fly well. This is what I'm guessing Mike was talking about from his sim time. The Hornet is quite fickle and DOES NOT like BIG, HAM-FISTED stick inputs in this regime.  I'll try to make my mods based on this from here on out. In addition, the last Sludge Test Bird was much closer to what Mike and Chris described and what I experienced in the sim: if you are trimmed correctly, you can fly a pass using VERY LITTLE vertical stick inputs. The throttle will control glideslope ALMOST exclusively as the correct trim will keep you on speed. I'll keep this aspect but will be tweaking the .AIR file to model the "slushy" feel to a greater extent than what I've done.

The hard part will be to find an FSX BALANCE between the UA and PA modes, because the .AIR file is still quite hard to manipulate in one area (dogfighting vs. carrier pattern) without affecting the other. But I now know that I will try to model the systems to what the jet CAN DO and not "protecting" the pilot from getting the Hornet into a bad situation, as I used to do.

Also, there are some software changes to the HUD that I'll try to incorporate in the next edition. First is that below 1000' AGL, the HUD displays BARO ALT in the ALT BOX and RDR ALT just below without a BOX and with an R next to it. In addition, as heard previous by other guys that flew the sim, when you are in PA mode and trim up/down, you see the AoA you are trimming to just above the TCN on the HUD... it stays for about 5 secs and then disappears. Will try to integrate this, once the "trim to AoA" problem Jimi is working on is solved.

Things we CANT CHANGE.

The VC physical HUD brackets/AoA indexer and how wrong its been modeled. At the sim and the Blues El Centro airshow, in the static display aircraft, the Hornet HUD physical brackets are NOT directly parallel. They are splayed outwards approx 5-10 degrees. Since I'm at work, I can't post my pictures, but in comparison, the T-45 HUD brackets are directly parallel and Dino's model is correct; whereas the Hornet models I've flown all assumed the HUD brackets are directly parallel (think railroad tracks) and this is not the case. Also, the AoA Indexer is MICROSCOPIC in comparison to what it is in the real Hornet cockpit. I mean, in the real cockpit, its at least 3x as small as the Hornet VC and its imbedded in the physical brackets, not sticking out. You barely notice it, except when its activated.

Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some  visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
 
Nor can we make two separate flight modes that make dogfighting and good carrier pattern handling just like the real thing. Just not possible with FSX and the default Hornet because its a constant balancing act/trade-off between getting it close enough yet still giving both modes the justice they deserve.

Later
Sludge

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SUBS17

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2012, 10:59:05 pm »
For the FM have you thought of asking VRS how they modelled both modes in the VRS SH? They seem to have accoplished a FM with UA and PA plus other features like the real SH FBW. Although they are different aircraft they do share those 2 modes in the FBW. Also NASA FM data might be a good idea. You could try talking to Mavjp on BMS forums hes a FM guru his latest FM for Falcon 4 BMS 4.321 is more realistic than an actual Mil Viper sim FM. ;D

http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forum.php

They've got a FM for a hornet already but you never know what else is on this forum. Anyway good luck with your FM your best bet is to ask some of these guys they may have a solution.

cheers

Subs

Johan

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2012, 11:06:36 pm »
Lucky you Sludge! Great feedback too.

Johan

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2012, 12:37:13 am »
Sludge, good news on your Hornet sim experience. What a lucky chap. Great news that your experience will be in your SLUDGE modifications now.

Interesting about the HUD and AoA indexer differences. I'm guessing it was not an issue when the Hornet was first made but becomes an issue for carrier landings in FSX now.

May I ask that you err on the carrier landing side of realism (rather than free flight) if that is possible please?

And again thanks for all your hard work modifying the Sludge.
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MikeB54

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2012, 01:02:59 am »
Fellas...

OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.

Glad i could help with that.  :)

Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some  visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
 

Later
Sludge

I agree about the eye postion being too far back.  I have been fighting the eyepoint problem ever since my time in the sim.  :(  I still haven't come up with a zoom level and eye position that I'm happy with.  I wish I had thought to measure the actual width of the panel.  With that I could mathematically calculate the correct zoom level and eye position for my monitor size.

Mike  (Snake 54)

wilycoyote4

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2012, 01:28:20 am »
Fellas...

OK, Im finally back in the saddle modding again after a great vacation/business trip to San Diego. Thanks to Mike and his son Chris, I got to sit the seat (swapout w/Jimi) in the legacy Hornet simulator at MCAS Miramar. Was quite a fun time and a very eye opening experience from a modding standpoint.

Glad i could help with that.  :)

Also, the eyepoint is wayy off, its back too far. Maybe this was done with game playability in mind or whatever? All I know is its not what I experienced in the sim. We could have a closer eyepoint but you'll lose HUD symbology at the top cut off, and you'd lose some  visibility of the fuel mgmt panel.
 

Later
Sludge

I agree about the eye postion being too far back.  I have been fighting the eyepoint problem ever since my time in the sim.  :(  I still haven't come up with a zoom level and eye position that I'm happy with.  I wish I had thought to measure the actual width of the panel.  With that I could mathematically calculate the correct zoom level and eye position for my monitor size.

Mike  (Snake 54)

hi Mike, you and your son have been a miracle ever since you got on this forum.  Thanks aplenty.  Keep going on the projects. 

Can't wait for the new efforts.

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Re: Sludge Hornet F/A-18
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2012, 02:32:05 am »
Awesome news Sludge!!! So you left out the most important part, did you have a go at the boat??? If so, how'd it go?

Looks like you got a lot of good intel, and will keep you busy modding for sure, thanks again for your efforts. Look forward to the updated handling and HUD symbology.

Definitely agree with wanting to update the VC HUD, here is a good pic from the drivers seat that I wish we could replicate in FSX.

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