Author Topic: Work in Progress / 11  (Read 110217 times)

virtuali

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 03:36:15 pm »
Old sceneries, old techniques, yet specular was there already. Just my two cents.

Specular effects alone were supported by FS9, however it was way more limited, because you had to define a material using a specular value. With FSX, there's specular mapping instead, were the values are taken from a separate bitmap (different from the main texture), so you can specify different values for each pixel, if needed. There's no comparison.

And, FSX has bump mapping, which FS9 doesn't have, and this is what gives the most tridimensional effect to objects, which can't be really captured by screenshots, because it changes with the viewpoint and the light angle.

And, FSX has environment mapping, which FS9 doesn't have, that allows to see reflections. KLAX use it extensively, especially in the new TBIT terminal, which is mainly metal+glass. And we use custom environment mapping so, it's not the default "bush" environment that is used, but it's a map of the actual scenery itself, which is reflected in the glass.

In KLAX, we used all these features extensively, and combined, that's why it will be very difficult to make it for FS9, because the whole modeling *started* having these features in mind.

See in the attached screenshot, always keeping in mind a static image really doesn't capture the effect.

virtuali

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 03:51:45 pm »
Another example, here. Note how close the viewpoint is to the building, usually you would see extreme blurriness at this distance, but here is still very sharp, because even the detail texture has his own custom bump map.

UAL747

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2011, 04:07:41 pm »
WOW KLAX looks really awesome! very very very good work FsDt!

jackhendricks

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 04:12:44 pm »
When will you let us know if your doing FS9 or not?

virtuali

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 04:26:40 pm »
I would like nobody would take this in the wrong way, because it's not meant to be a bashing of other developers in any way, I would like to be as objective as possible.

Here's two screenshots of a similar situation (viewpoint very close to a building with concrete wall+glass), from some of the best developers of large airports out there: FlyTampa's Athens and Flightbeam's KSFO.

They both look *very* good from a distance, but when you get close, there's no comparison with KLAX.

FlyTampa used a very FS9-compatible method, just diffuse mapping + alpha for transparencies, both things that FS9 can do just as well as FSX. The best idea here is the use of baked shadows and Ambient Occlusions to give depth without costing anything to the fps. We use that method at KLAX extensively too, the whole scenery use AO. However, there's no bump mapping, so the scenery is a bit flat and doesn't change much with time of day or viewpoint, but what really ruined the otherwise very nice detailed shadows, is the DXT compression, which created a lot of pixelization artifacts. In any case, it's a scenery that will probably look the same even in FS9, at least in this place.

Flghtbeam KSFO is a bit better. First, there is bump mapping, although being on the main texture, it follows its limited resolution, so it's not as sharp as KLAX, were we used it on the much high res detail texture. Amir was very smart here, because he chose a combination of colors and a way of painting that won't suffer as much when compressing in DXT so, there are not many visual artifacts as in the FlyTampa scenery, that has lots of high-frequency detail and sudden changes of nearby colors, and those don't compress very well.

In both cases, we are comparing to the developers we respect the most, but I'd say KLAX is really a big step forward in visual quality, with the side effect it won't convert very good in FS9.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 03:16:39 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2011, 04:31:44 pm »
When will you let us know if your doing FS9 or not?

After the FSX version is released, we'll start working on FS9, and decide after seeing the results. This time, we'll release FSX first, because the conversion to FS9 is not simple at all.

PUP4ORD

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2011, 04:52:46 pm »
Sounds like KLAX is close to the finish line. :)
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Frank Lindberg

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2011, 06:10:10 pm »
When will you let us know if your doing FS9 or not?

After the FSX version is released, we'll start working on FS9, and decide after seeing the results. This time, we'll release FSX first, because the conversion to FS9 is not simple at all.

Man that sucks  :-[ One can hope...
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DJJose

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2011, 06:47:24 pm »
When you consider the low cost of a 2500K, motherboard, and ram, I'm surprised that there are still FS9 users. FSX is SO worth the upgrade. KLAX should motivate some to make the change. Looks amazing!

Frank Lindberg

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2011, 06:58:32 pm »
When you consider the low cost of a 2500K, motherboard, and ram, I'm surprised that there are still FS9 users. FSX is SO worth the upgrade. KLAX should motivate some to make the change. Looks amazing!

Dude, U have no idea what U are saying... I have been flowing FS) since 05 and have spend lot of money on this product. Why on earth should I start all over now? when MS flight is right around the corner.
If FSDT won't make a FS9 version of LAX, they will lose me.  :(   
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Snuffleupagus

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2011, 07:01:25 pm »
When will you let us know if your doing FS9 or not?

After the FSX version is released, we'll start working on FS9, and decide after seeing the results. This time, we'll release FSX first, because the conversion to FS9 is not simple at all.

Man that sucks  :-[ One can hope...

Keep our fingers crossed.


When you consider the low cost of a 2500K, motherboard, and ram, I'm surprised that there are still FS9 users. FSX is SO worth the upgrade. KLAX should motivate some to make the change. Looks amazing!

Depends what one considers low cost  ;) I've got waaay too many addons for FS9 to give it up. It looks just as good as FSX a lot of the time. Also, making very little money, I can't afford a few hundred on a computer. Gas + School + Insurance + Food + RW Flying = Busting open the piggy bank!  :-\ Maybe someday I'll upgrade to FSX, but I just can't do it anytime soon.

Bruce Hamilton

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2011, 07:21:44 pm »
If FSDT won't make a FS9 version of LAX, they will lose me.

They will lose you anyway.  Umberto has already said if they did an FS9 version, it would be the last.
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Frank Lindberg

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2011, 07:34:46 pm »
If FSDT won't make a FS9 version of LAX, they will lose me.

They will lose you anyway.  Umberto has already said if they did an FS9 version, it would be the last.

True... Then I have to stick to Europe then  ;) there are lots of fs9 airports... But I love flying in US  :( so sad..
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newmanix

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2011, 08:28:27 pm »
Well keep this in mind. There are some very crazy minded people who bought Buleprint LAX. So Even though it's clear the FS9 version of FSDT's LAX wont be as good as FSX, it will still be very good. And the FS9 Athens by FT is exactly the quality us FS9ners expect. We arn't really looking for this super bump maping the FSX version has. Im not saying it aint awesome, but our expectations from FS9 is perfomance over beauty and the quality of payware airports coming form FSDT, Aerosoft, Fly Tampa, UK2000, ImagineSim, Overland, and even Latin VFR and Eiresim just to name a few have been very beautiful for us indeed!

As you said before, if it at least looks as good as the C9 LAX then you will do it. Well that old C9 LAX still looks DAMN good to us. I happen to REALLY like the shading method of FlyTampa. Besides, the average FS9ner will still get twice the frames then the average FSX user in the same scenery. And for you other FS9 bashers, do understand performance is the not the reason most of us have stuck with FS9. My system got up to 30FPS with all FSX features maxed using PMDG 744 at JFK. It's the look and feel of FSX I don't like. It just feels like a game to me. Even the real life motion simulators such as CAE don't have gaphics and textures like FSX. They are more similar to FS9. And yes, I have flown in them with video to prove it.

I love that you are pushing the ladder with quality in flight simualtion Umberto. I do. But for me, FSX is just too gameish. So we hope you will be able to give us a good looking LAX for FS9 because if Flight turns out to be another game like platform, i'll skip that too. Besides, people like have so much to choose from between scenery and aircraft in FS9, we honestly can keep this up for years. Honestly, most of us with jobs, school, and family are lucky to get in a few hours a week if that and FS9 supplies the need very well...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:45:47 pm by newmanix »

aircanadajet

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Re: Work in Progress / 11
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2011, 08:42:53 pm »
This is the holy of the airports!!!!!!!! Please send it down soon, before school starts!!!!! (Sept 8.)