2 minor issues @LSZH v2

[G.Bosak]

1.) there is a pole raising at the airport (not a spike based on excessive autogen usage) i took a screenshot

2.) ground-textures are getting active around 5 DME (nearly as seen at PHOG) Are all your airports now that late when in short final? (pls check this)

noticed it arriving at RWY 14 today.

[virtuali]

1.) there is a pole raising at the airport (not a spike based on excessive autogen usage) i took a screenshot

Doesn't happen here. It's not a pole, it seems to be one of the animated sunshades which is incorrectly rotated up but, as I've said, I can't see it in, even with different graphic settings, as you can see in the attached screenshot.

So, this is likely a video driver bug, have you applied the HighMemFix tweak ?

2.) ground-textures are getting active around 5 DME (nearly as seen at PHOG) Are all your airports now that late when in short final? (pls check this)

Use the attached files to fix this, the distance will be 10.1 NM now, it's not possible to have it larger than this.

PHOG texture loading distance has been already fixed in the 1.1 update.

[G.Bosak]

have you applied the HighMemFix tweak ?

As i use your sceneries (addonmanager), yes.  But i used it already before. This "pole" doesn't appear anytime, i don't see it on the ground while taxiing. It needs a special view, when flying. So i don't think this is a graphic driver issue maybe it is some LOD magic. 

Use the attached files to fix this, the distance will be 10.1 NM now, it's not possible to have it larger than this.

works fine  and 10.1 is very ok. The former LSZH was around 9,5 DME as far as i remember. Do i have to store this 3 given files for any reinstalling, or are they part of any official update, soon?

PHOG texture loading distance has been already fixed in the 1.1 update.

Didn't know that there is a new installer in the wild. Thank you.

Btw. i senced something like "bleeding" at the runways during final from this flat angle, too. Not comparable with the meanwhile solved PHOG issue, cause not noticable after touch down. But i think this is more like the flickering you can notice if you watch KDFW with its ground bump mapping textures, zoomed out in birds view [F12].

[virtuali]

As i use your sceneries (addonmanager), yes.

That wasn't automatically implied, because the Addon Manager doesn't touch anything in the FSX.CFG settings, it will only allow to use tweaks using a simpler interface but, in order for the tweaks to be applied, you need to Save to FSX explicitly, the Addon Manager doesn't set them unless you told it to. That's why I had to ask.

This "pole" doesn't appear anytime, i don't see it on the ground while taxiing. It needs a special view, when flying.

I've tried to use a viewpoint similar to yours, and can't see it. See the attached screenshot. Of course, if you put coordinates and visible zoom level in your screenshot it might have been easier to replicate your viewpoint, but still I've tried to turn around the area and/or the airplane, without being able to reproduce it.

So i don't think this is a graphic driver issue maybe it is some LOD magic

Nope, it's 100% sure it's nothing related to LOD. LOD only makes an object disappear/reappear, but it won't rotate it wrongly or misplace it. It's more likely a video problem.

works fine  and 10.1 is very ok. The former LSZH was around 9,5 DME as far as i remember. Do i have to store this 3 given files for any reinstalling, or are they part of any official update, soon?

We always update the full installers as soon problems are found, that's another advantage of selling sceneries in Trial versions freely downloadable to anyone: we need to have our installer to always be in the best shape possible, since it drives sales...

Btw. i senced something like "bleeding" at the runways during final from this flat angle, too. Not comparable with the meanwhile solved PHOG issue, cause not noticable after touch down. But i think this is more like the flickering you can notice if you watch KDFW with its ground bump mapping textures, zoomed out in birds view [F12].

In fact, it's nothing like the problem at PHOG, this is a side effect of the autogen exclusion fix at Zurich, which is very minor and it's not really noticeable using normal approach paths, unless you really look for it.

[G.Bosak]

I've tried to use a viewpoint similar to yours, and can't see it. See the attached screenshot. Of course, if you put coordinates and visible zoom level in your screenshot it might have been easier to replicate your viewpoint, but still I've tried to turn around the area and/or the airplane, without being able to reproduce it.

i caught that "pole-biest"  

Some strange things going on:

i load LSZH RWY 34 at daylight, (i am at the holding point then) and change to outside view. i have 4 screens for you to see where it comes from. It happens only at first load, if i leave to fsx menu and load again, it doesn't appear again. If i close FSX and load LSZH again, it is there again.

The reason why i don't believe in a graphics error is the fact i didn't change driver or hardware and have never seen this in v1.52. [still using 258.96 WHQL ,570GTX]
 

We always update the full installers as soon problems are found, that's another advantage of selling sceneries in Trial versions freely downloadable to anyone: we need to have our installer to always be in the best shape possible, since it drives sales...

of course, does make sense  

In fact, it's nothing like the problem at PHOG, this is a side effect of the autogen exclusion fix at Zurich, which is very minor and it's not really noticeable using normal approach paths, unless you really look for it.

is there any easy workaround (maybe a simple batchfile) to get the situation before the autogen exclusion. I mean, i have used the scenery for years with excluded autogen, and was happy. But a "living" runway isn't really enjoyable, even at night. Where else then at the runway i should look in short final?  

[virtuali]

i load LSZH RWY 34 at daylight, (i am at the holding point then) and change to outside view. i have 4 screens for you to see where it comes from

Tried doing exactly that (starting a new flight at day from RWY34 holding point, then changed to outside view) and of course, nothing of the sort happens, see the screenshot attached, which shows exactly the same coordinates as yours. Tried with the ultralight too, to discount a difference in airplane model, tried with different zoom settings and by turning the view all over the airplane, and nothing. Tried both Windowed mode and Full screen mode, no difference, no pole visible.

Something that shows, is that you are having a lower fps than mine, with a video card which is supposed to be much faster, I have an ATI 4870 with 512MB:

http://www.hwcompare.com/9066/geforce-gtx-570-vs-radeon-hd-4870-512mb/

There are no AI in your screenshot either, yet you have 13 fps less (my system it's a MacPro with 2.66 Xeon, of course running in Windows 7, but not the best gaming machine, at all...) so, it's really possible you have video driver issues or, simply, a tweak either in FSX or in the video driver itself, which is affecting both the visuals and is lowering performances too.

The reason why i don't believe in a graphics error is the fact i didn't change driver or hardware and have never seen this in v1.52. [still using 258.96 WHQL ,570GTX]

That's an assumption, which instead CAN be explained as a possible graphic bug. In version 1.5.2, the sunshades were part of the same polygonal mesh of the terminal, but now they are a separate object and are animated too.

This means, if your driver has a bug dealing with local translation matrixes, which are used by animated objects, you wouldn't be able to spot it in 1.5.2, because none were used in the first place, without this being obviously a problem of the scenery itself, other than it *exposed* a possible driver issue.

is there any easy workaround (maybe a simple batchfile) to get the situation before the autogen exclusion. I mean, i have used the scenery for years without this excluded autogen, and was happy. But a "living" runway isn't really enjoyable, even at night. Where else then at the runway i should look in short final?  

We should probably bring back the autogen exclusion bug, which was a problem that lots of people reported before, so we don't have any intention to do so, since the flickering is almost invisible and always disappears when approaching, the autogen exclusion bug was *way* worse of a problem.

But, of course, since I can't see the "pole" and you can, it's possible you are also seeing a bigger flicker than you should, possibly because of a video driver bug, or maybe just a setting or a tweak that shouldn't be used.

[G.Bosak]

Something that shows, is that you are having a lower fps than mine, with a video card which is supposed to be much faster, I have an ATI 4870 with 512MB:

http://www.hwcompare.com/9066/geforce-gtx-570-vs-radeon-hd-4870-512mb/

There are no AI in your screenshot either, yet you have 13 fps less (my system it's a MacPro with 2.66 Xeon, of course running in Windows 7, but not the best gaming machine, at all...) so, it's really possible you have video driver issues or, simply, a tweak either in FSX or in the video driver itself, which is affecting both the visuals and is lowering performances too.

Hehehe, it seems you don't really like NVIDIA, Umberto. 

you haven't noticed my active fps limiter locked @30fps due to smoothness.

we all know, fsx is cpu limited not gpu limited, and i am using an old Core2Duo, not a quad. (xeon) It doesn't make sence, to compare graphiccards concerning FSX on totally different designed hardware. A stronger gpu doesn't raise fps in FSX extremely, it allowes you to use more quality settings without fps impact.

all my screens are made in High Definition

and with active filtering options (nvidia inspector) ATI doesn't offer and the 4870 couldn't handle without swapping due to limited gpu memory.
As every Screenshot is around 8mb, i have reduced visual quality extremely, so this isn't the normal approach of a nvidia card.

You should give Nvidia a chance, sometime. 

We should probably bring back the autogen exclusion bug, which was a problem that lots of people reported before, so we don't have any intention to do so, since the flickering is almost invisible and always disappears when approaching, the autogen exclusion bug was *way* worse of a problem.

I didn't mean, to rework the installer for that. If it is possible i would like to know which of the Switzerland Pro X files have to be turned on or off, to get the status i am used to without flickering, manually?

PS: maybe, the pole thing will be gone with my coming up new FSX installation, new hardware is on the way, which will not be a mac. 

[virtuali]

Hehehe, it seems you don't really like NVIDIA, Umberto. 

Really don't know why you deducted this, since I've said exactly the opposite, that your card should perform faster because it's better than mine, I always had nVidia, and I believe they are better for FSX but, having a Mac, I don't have much choice than using an ATI.

you haven't noticed my active fps limiter locked @30fps due to smoothness.

That doesn't really make any difference because, in that specific moment your fps was at 27.8 (in the first screen), to be effectively working as a limiter for smoothness, you should have been in a situation of of a frame rate *always* higher than 30, being brought back to 30 just because of the limiter. In your situation, you would probably get even better smoothness by limiting at 20.

we all know, fsx is cpu limited not gpu limited, and i am using an old Core2Duo, not a quad. (xeon) It doesn't make sence, to compare graphiccards concerning FSX on totally different designed hardware. A stronger gpu doesn't raise fps in FSX extremely, it allowes you to use more quality settings without fps impact.

Of course, I didn't know what CPU you used. In fact, just because FSX is CPU limited, I assumed that, with such good card, you would be using a far better CPU. So yes, perhaps your lower frame rate it's due to your CPU only.

all my screens are made in High Definition

My monitor here it's 4:3, so I can't go higher than 1600x1200 but, I have exactly the same frame rate in Windowed mode as Full Screen mode, no noticeable difference, not at Zurich at least.

and with active filtering options (nvidia inspector) ATI doesn't offer and the 4870 couldn't handle without swapping due to limited gpu memory.

That's simply confirm my point: if my card, with less than half VRAM CAN show the scenery properly, it's not a problem of the scenery (for example, if that objects would allocate too much VRAM due to a bug or so), but more likely a video driver bug or just a tweak.

As every Screenshot is around 8mb, i have reduced visual quality extremely, so this isn't the normal approach of a nvidia card.

The quality of the screenshot itself doesn't have much to do with this problem, nor I made any remark about it.

You should give Nvidia a chance, sometime. 

Again, I've said clearly your card is better than mine, and I would rather be able to use an nVidia myself BUT, this doesn't have anything to do with the fact that a video driver bug is always possible, or that a tweak in FSX or a tweak in the video driver settings might cause such kind of visual problems, without being the scenery's fault.

If it is possible i would like to know which of the Switzerland Pro X files have to be turned on or off, to get the status i am used to without flickering, manually?

The Autogen exclusion bug wasn't specific in any way to Switzerland Pro, it happened just the same even with the default scenery and yes, to reintroduce it, we would need to change our files.

If more people would eventually report this issue as a problem, compared to how many used to report the autogen exclusion problem (everybody has HIS own opinion about what is most disturbing visually), we might consider going back as it was, but as it stands now, I consider that unnoticeable flickering a way less of the two evils compared to the autogen loss.

PS: maybe, the pole thing will be gone with my coming up new FSX installation, new hardware is on the way, which will not be a mac.

That would be a good choice, if I was a gamer, I probably wouldn't buy a Mac too BUT, there's nothing better than a Mac Pro, for a developer, because it's far more stable than any PC I had (and I had many of them), and the Xeon is THE best CPU for graphic development and rendering. It's an 8 cores, BTW, even if FSX doesn't make much use of it...

[G.Bosak]

Really don't know why you deducted this, since I've said exactly the opposite, that your card should perform faster because it's better than mine

This was meant ironic, btw. it doesn' make a big difference if you say the performance is unexpected low or it "should perform faster". I just gave some reasons why it is as it is.  

That doesn't really make any difference because, in that specific moment your fps was at 27.8 (in the first screen), to be effectively working as a limiter for smoothness, you should have been in a situation of of a frame rate *always* higher than 30, being brought back to 30 just because of the limiter. In your situation, you would probably get even better smoothness by limiting at 20.

I would agree here, if i had to optimize for a single airport. I have around 100 addons Airports and still have to use FSX standard airports on my IVAO tours as well. In this cases i would lose 10 fps and the amount the limititing itself takes. So this is my finest overall setting. I don't like to fit the settings on every flight.

Some words to the 27.8 fps. You see, i have the flusifix fps tweak activated. It shows the actual reading, the lowest reading, the average and the max. reading. Every time i hit the native FSX screenshot button "V", the actual and the lowest reading is falling, so the representative value normally is the average reading fps and this is after take-off between 29-30 fps and while taxiing in most cases (and especially at all your fine FSDT airports smooth enough without limit at 20fps, as you see on the varianz value.

I assumed that, with such good card, you would be using a far better CPU.

The change half a year ago did become necessary cause my last GPU striked working suddenly.

My monitor here it's 4:3, so I can't go higher than 1600x1200 but.

What a pitty, i often hoped to use KLAX preview screenhots as wallpaper on my screen. In this resolution, it would be too blocky. But if you release KLAX soon, i can make them myself

The Autogen exclusion bug wasn't specific in any way to Switzerland Pro, it happened just the same even with the default scenery and yes, to reintroduce it, we would need to change our files.

Ok, that wasn't clear to me before.

Two last questions for today:

Is it still possible to use the "old" LSZH installer v1.52 without having unexpected issues, if i update the addonmanager after the Airport installation again?

Will the side-effect (flickering runways) be gone, when your LSZH reaches its final state, with the payware ground shader upgrade?

[virtuali]

btw. it doesn' make a big difference if you say the performance is unexpected low or it "should perform faster". I just gave some reasons why it is as it is.  

But I was obviously said this to point it out there was maybe a problem with your system configuration, not to say the card wasn't "good" in any way. I wouldn't have said "should perform faster" if I thought the card wasn't very good for FSX.

Every time i hit the native FSX screenshot button "V", the actual and the lowest reading is falling, so the representative value normally is the average reading fps and this is after take-off between 29-30 fps and while taxiing in most cases (and especially at all your fine FSDT airports smooth enough without limit at 20fps, as you see on the varianz value.

Yes, of course, it's very well known that hitting V takes a fps spike down, but that was valid for *my* screenshots as well so, the difference remains, that's why I've asked. But, as I've said, now that you said you use an old Core 2 Duo, your fps are perfectly reasonable.

What a pitty, i often hoped to use KLAX preview screenhots as wallpaper on my screen. In this resolution, it would be too blocky. But if you release KLAX soon, i can make them myself

That's not a problem, since I'm not the one making KLAX, and I'm not the one that usually makes screenshots, Alessandro, the main scenery developer, has a 30" at 2560x1600 but, if he put full screen images, they won't FIT many desktops, so he usually posts in reduced resolution.

Is it still possible to use the "old" LSZH installer v1.52 without having unexpected issues, if i update the addonmanager after the Airport installation again?

No, you can't use the whole installer, you need to install 1.5.2, and save the following files after the installation:

LSZH_SF01.BGL
LSZH_SF01_FA.BGL
LSZH_SF01_HW.BGL
LSZH_SF02.BGL
LSZH_STR_5.BGL
LSZH_STR_6.BGL

Then uninstall it entirely, reinstall 2.0 and put those files in. This will give you back the autogen exclusion bug.

Will the side-effect (flickering runways) be gone, when your LSZH reaches its final state, with the payware ground shader upgrade?

That would entirely solve it because, there's no autogen exclusion issue to begin with when using native FSX ground (in fact, we need to be careful for autogen not invading the runways), and there's no flicker because we control it entirely, it was a problem can happen only with FS8-style ground polygons, which means every airport out there from any developer, except KDFW and soon KLAX. The last Zurich update will use the same methods.

[G.Bosak]

Alessandro, the main scenery developer, has a 30" at 2560x1600 but, if he put full screen images, they won't FIT many desktops, so he usually posts in reduced resolution.

From the function of preview in a forum this is totally understandable, but it would be nice, if there is at least a link to non-resized shots in future, which can be personally resized at the customer end. Some of this preview-shots would be really perfect as wallpaper.

No, you can't use the whole installer, you need to install 1.5.2, and save the following files after the installation:

LSZH_SF01.BGL
LSZH_SF01_FA.BGL
LSZH_SF01_HW.BGL
LSZH_SF02.BGL
LSZH_STR_5.BGL
LSZH_STR_6.BGL

Then uninstall it entirely, reinstall 2.0 and put those files in. This will give you back the autogen exclusion bug.

Thank you very much, Umberto. This works perfect without any flickering (tested RWY14)

That would entirely solve it because, there's no autogen exclusion issue to begin with when using native FSX ground (in fact, we need to be careful for autogen not invading the runways), and there's no flicker because we control it entirely, it was a problem can happen only with FS8-style ground polygons, which means every airport out there from any developer, except KDFW and soon KLAX. The last Zurich update will use the same methods.

till then i can live very fine with this workaround.