Sludge/Combat Hornet Integrator - Released

[lvflyer]

Thanks Sludge and have a safe trip.  I'll integrate it in our Underway testing.  We are working on weapon imagery now.

[Johan]

Thanks Sludge, I will test fly this weekend. Have a safe trip.

Johan

[Sludge]

Thanks Fellas...

Ill be monitoring the board til I head down to Dallas tonite, so if there are any install problems, post em.

LVFlyer...

Thats impressive. Cant wait to see that when I get back. Wish I was more help in that area, I just dont have the expertise. Thanks for the testing and inputs tho!

Later
Sludge

[Sludge]

Fellas...

a few quick words bout the test sludge. the 2d hud is now conformal at .80 zoom in widescreen. repos the iflols and indexer gauges. gauges shud now NOT key flood. g vapor and hi n1 eng exhaust cut off when at -39 c (contrails). flight control response shud b closer 2 real world. meaning, low/slow= weak roll/good pitch/strong rudder authorities. med-fast/clean=strong pitch/strong roll/good rudder authorities. added med-g low rumble sound. changed vc hud size n viewpoint back 2 default values. 2d n vc shud almost match. changd pitch up trim during PA so that a minor pull is required to keep nose up. happens auto when dirty.

thats bout it. test out the features n let me know what u think.

later
sludge

[GOONIE]

Sludge,

Flew the test Sludge this weekend, like the new tweaks, but wanted to offer a suggestion on the handling (note; N2 power settings seemed correct around the boat). I felt the jet felt heavy and too stable, requring large amount of stick inputs to make turns around the boat, this is compared to the super hornet sim. I am not sure how these settings will work in other flight regimes (dog fighting, high speed), but I played around with the flight scale tuners in the aircraft.cfg, and found these come pretty close to the squirrely feeling of the super hornet sim, and require the correct amount of control inputs (small, timely inputs). Try them out and see what you think:

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar     =    1.0
parasite_drag_scalar   =    1.0            // slow down Hornet at high speeds
induced_drag_scalar    =    1.3            // higher AoA drag, more realistic for CVN Ops
elevator_effectiveness =    1.4
aileron_effectiveness  =    1.7
rudder_effectiveness   =    1.0
pitch_stability        =    0.7
roll_stability         =    0.5
yaw_stability          =    1.5
elevator_trim_effectiveness =    4.5
aileron_trim_effectiveness  =    2.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness   =    1.0

-CAPT

[Sludge]

CAPT...

I tried your numbers last night and it was too much. We will definately have to talk on Skype while flying because I'll need to explain my methodology/reasoning and then maybe we can come to a happy medium. Probly keeping the effectiveness scalars the same but changing the stability scalars to get a good in-between of what you were talking about in the Bug sim and what I released.

One of the main things I tried to do was to stop the Hornet from doing a snap roll while in the dirty config and not losing any altitude. With the numbers you provided, the Hornet can now do full aileron rolls without crashing into the ground while in a low/slow/dirty configuration, which seems unrealistic to me, so a middle ground is needed. In addition, since most of us (myself included) have an "easy movement" flight stick (x52 for me), I figured the "heaviness" of handling in FSX would sorta be a middle ground between the real world rock-solid heavy stick of the hornet and the weak flight sim sticks that most of us have. Again, a real world chat is in order to get things closer to real world but compensating enough for us flight simmers.

We may have to talk with Mike (time in legacy Hornet sim), and get some compare/contrast with what he encountered as well. From the recent readings and posts, I'm also understanding that the legacy was made to be more statically stable while the Super was unstable, so that would affect the "squirrely" feeling you got in the carrier pattern.

Thanks for the inputs tho, took them to heart and still working them...

Later
Sludge

[Sludge]

Fellas...

Anybody else wanna chime in with their inputs. I'd like to hear what others have encountered, so that I can balance that with what CAPT is saying.

Also, have people noticed the difference with the effects (less KeyFlooding; more FPS friendly) and using them in a multiplayer environment. That was one of the biggest objectives for this latest version... to me it more FPS-friendly/multiplayer-flyable.

Thanks.
Sludge

[lvflyer]

One thing I'm concerned with and I'm no real world F18 pilot or researcher so don't know what would happen in the real world, but when you approach overspeed the control effetiveness falls to zero.  Is that a built in feature in real world to keep from over G?  I find if I am yanking and banking that you may exceed structural limits for short periods, but with the controls not working it makes you a sitting duck.  And if you happen to nose dive you can't pull out where you should be able to pull out gently without breaking up.  This link is a screenshot with some of the Underway gauges positioned.  www.dahome.net/fsxpics.htm.   I also found a hidden pearl that you might be interested in.  When you have a popup window like that of the HUD control open say in VC and you switch to outside view for a second the control disappears and you have to reopen it.  I found a post that described using the type=special tag in the Window?? section of the panel.cfg and it makes it stick even when switching views.  I've yet to figure out how to open the window in VC on startup though.   

[Johan]

Hi Sludge,

First thanks for the Test Sludge, I flew just a few passes last night around the AC, looking at the plane performance from the AC tower.  I haven’t successfully landed on the AC yet, still trying to manage the modified behavior. My first impression is a noticeable decrease in agility (normal, due to the changes in scalar parameters) and I experienced the same problem as Lvflyer…at high speed and attempted sharp turns, the plane wouldn’t respond and continue without deviating from its trajectory, not matter what action I apply on the stick... I will keep working on it. Thanks again.

Johan

[Sludge]

Johan...

The decrease in agility shouldnt be to the point where you cant maneuver in low/dirty, so I may have to Skype you this weekend and get some real time feedback while we are both flying the same jet. I wanted it to keep pitch and rudder authority while dirty/slow but lose alot of roll authority. But I didnt want to get it soo unresponsive that you cant land on the boat.

Guess I took too much off the higher side of the curve when I was modding the AIR file? I'll tinker with that more when I get a chance as it deals with the AIR file tables/effectiveness curves than it does with the scalars in the AIRCRAFT.CFG file.

LVFlyer...

What speed were you flying at? You know Vmax is around 800 knots right? I'll go fly and see if I can replicate and then mod from there and get a fix out ASAP

For both you guys, what stick do you have and what are your response curves?

Later
Sludge

[lvflyer]

At 700 very little elevator response and sluggish roll response.  Impossible to do a level wing course correction with rudder for small target allignment adjustment.  I'm not sure if that is available on these in the real world, but I do know you should have enough rudder to perform a knife edge pass.  At 800 no control at all.  I use a Real Flight hand held controller like that used for RC Simulation.  The response is usually extremely snappy.  I fly helicopters in FSX with it flawlessly.  Regarding the rudder, being a real world pilot, private piston planes and helicopter, I know you can turn a plane by rudder alone gradually while keeping the wings level.  On long cross-countrys, at least in my Mooney I fly by my feet sometimes.  Anyway in FSX it seems they have too much of a boomerang effect and the more rudder you give it in a flat turn the more it swings in the opposite direction when you go to neutral on pedals.  I had a real problem in the B2 and B1B with that and fought hard to change the air file to correct it.  I couldn't quite get the proper effect without making the rudder extremely sensitive.  So if you find any good tutorials on air files let me know.  They contain a whole lot of aeronautical engineering jargon.  I'm thinking it has to do with the actual air friction and how the plane reacts to that.

[Sludge]

LV...

I got a better AIR file done last night was just unable to upload it here as I got a "download files full" something-or-other message, so all you saw was my reply.

When I get back home today, I'll send the new airfile so you can mess around with it.

Oh yeah, in real world we can do alot of stuff we cant in FSX. Its in the AIR file where you can tweak the "weathervane" effect of the rudder, but thats a whole nothing animal that I'd just not mess with til I get this set of problems done. And remember, thats why I decided to NOT incorporate any changes to the AUTO-COORD RUDDER system as I'm leaving that to user preference. I know it would be good to have in the carrier pattern, but I dont think it decently simulates anything close to the FBW rudder control system in the full flight regime, so I just left it out. If you like it, its easily enabled and if you dont, just leave it un-enabled.

Later
Sludge

[lvflyer]

Yep I got that same error when I tried to post the screenshot a few posts back.  Thought I wasn't allowed permissions or something.  I messed with the weathervane effect in the past.  Very sensitive, but then throws off the responsiveness and becomes too unrealistic.  I know you have to be gentle with wings level turns for real, but it eventually comes around.  In fact it is the preferred method to make small corrections on approach for ILS.  Once you tip the wings you can easily start chasing the localizer.

[GOONIE]

Hey Sludge,

This tweaking stuff is addictive!  I've continued to tweak since my last post, mainly the aircraft.cfg. What values are in the .air file and how do you tweak it?

I agree, we need to get Mike's input on the legacy sim and the test Sludge hornet. The super hornet sim required lots of small inputs for the precise flying around the boat. The stick was constantly being moved in a small radius, the size of half dollar when in the groove. That is the flight regime I focused on for my unstable tweaks, I understand you are looking for proper response in other phases of flight. When I made the Sludge hornet more unstable, it kind of kept me on my toes requiring constant small inputs in the groove. I've continued to tweak the .cfg, and have leaned more towards stable values since i last posted. Also I fly using the warthog hotas, and our controller sensitivities and null zones might be different.

I am in Florida this weekend but let me know if you want to Skype next week.

CAPT

[Sludge]

CAPT...

Yeah, its too addictive. Oh once you open the AIR file genie outta the bottle, get ready for 3am. Its great and it sucks all in the same breath.

Thats cool... we can talk next weekend, by then I should have my computer fully upgraded (video card, extra RAM) and migrated over to win7pro 64-bit.  Yes, yes... I know, I FINALLY am making the jump.

Anyway, have a great time time Florida and I'll yap at ya when you get back.

Later
Sludge