Landings and takeoffs

[jc880]

 The last post in the AFCAD discussion here seems to be 2009.
 I recently installed FS9 JFK using the AFCAD that came with the
 installer.  I have read the postings in the above discussion but none
 addressed the issue I have and posting to that discussion received
 no reply so I'll try again.

 I'm at a loss as to why I cannot close rnwy 13R to landings and 13L
 to takeoffs.  Doings so completely fouls-up all AI traffic to and from
 JFK.  Incoming traffic looks for phantom rnwys 34, 16 or 17.  All ground
 traffic ceases.  This is the first time I have ever experienced this
 behavior.  Is this an AFCAD issue, scenery issue, or FS issue?

 Many thanks,
 Jim

[virtuali]

The phantom runways are there to allow the curved approach lights. However, they are extremely short and don't have any ILS.

Since Flight sim gives a much higher preference in runway choice to runways with an ILS approach, it's very strange airplanes are being directed to the dummy runways, when there are 4R and 4R with available ILS approaches.

What are you using to edit the file ? Be sure you don't have the "DeleteAllApproaches=True" in your file, otherwise all approaches for JFK will be overridden and, missing an approach, the ATC might get confused.  The correct setting should be "DeleteAllApproaches=False"

[jc880]

What are you using to edit the file ? Be sure you don't have the "DeleteAllApproaches=True" in your file, otherwise all approaches for JFK will be overridden and, missing an approach, the ATC might get confused.  The correct setting should be "DeleteAllApproaches=False"


Thank you for the phantom runway explanation - I understand that.

 I'm using AFCAD 2.2 and AFX 1.0.9  All I do is open the afcad, right click
 the runway, select properties and then the screen pops up that allows me
 to open/close runways.  I do not know how to delete approaches nor where
 that setting is to be found. The AFCAD help file does not mention it.

 Thanks,
 Jim

[virtuali]

I don't think AFCAD is able to let you set the DeleteAllApproaches freely, and I don't know AFX.

The best and safer way to set it correctly, is to edit the source XML file, change the parameter manually, and compile with the MS BGLCOMP.EXE compiler from the SDK. If AFX doesn't allow you to export the XML source file, you can use the free ADE, which has an option for this.

[jc880]

 ADE allows me to export objects as xml but I did not see any mention of the AFCAD itself.

 I restored the original installed AFCAD.  All ai traffic moved as expected, meaning they
 all took off from correct runways and landed on correct runways for the indicated wind.
 Next I closed 4L/22R to landings and 4R/22L to takeoffs.  This removed 4L/22R for all takeoffs?
 I had to reset 4L/22R to no closures.  I then closed 31R to takeoffs and 31L to landings.
 This did close 31R to takeoffs and left it for landings only.  However, the closing of 31L to
 landings was ignored??   I don't have to be concerned with 13R for landings since it
 doesn't have an ILS.  I used AFX for AFCAD editing (seems to be very similar to AF2 but
 more user friendly.)

 If I restore the AFCAD I previously used with FRF JFK scenery all works fine with:
 13L/31R closed for takeoff
 13R/31L closed for landing
 4L/22R closed for landing
 4R/22L closed for takeoff
 Of course the gates, etc are off...

 I'm quite at a loss as to how one modifies this AFCAD for simple runway activities.
 I would very much like to close 31L to landings and 4L/22R to landings.

 Thanks,
 Jim

[virtuali]

ADE allows me to export objects as xml but I did not see any mention of the AFCAD itself.

It does, check better, on the general program preferences, there's an option to keep the XML source file when compiling a .BGL

I'm quite at a loss as to how one modifies this AFCAD for simple runway activities.

The main issue is, you are not taking into account the *Approaches* section (which for JFK we put into a separate file, for ease of editing). If there's no Approach, that runway will not be used by the ATC, and ILS Approaches gets the highest priority in the choice of runways.

However, if you have set DeleteAllApproaches to True, all approaches (even if in a different files) will be removed, which is why your runways gets messed up, that's why I said to set it to False.

[jc880]

 Thank you, I'd never have looked there.  Indeed, I was able to make the xml.
 I also installed MSXML4 and the BGL Comp SDK.  The xml file did indeed have
 DeleteAllApproaches set to TRUE. In fact, it had the following for the airport data:
 <DeleteAirport
         deleteAllRunways="TRUE"
         deleteAllStarts="TRUE"
         deleteAllHelipads="TRUE"
         deleteAllFrequencies="TRUE"
         deleteAllTaxiways="TRUE"
         deleteAllAprons="TRUE"
         deleteAllApronLights="TRUE"
         deleteAllApproaches="TRUE"/>

If I change TRUE to FALSE and compile with bglcom.exe the afcad file I get
behaves like before.  All ground traffic disappears as soon as it tries to move
and incoming traffic designates a phantom runway (16).

I next set all above TRUE's to FALSE and got the same result.

Jim

[virtuali]

Then sorry, you must have been made some other things which created this issue. The AFCAD that comes with the scenery doesn't have this issue.

Check you are not using two AFCADs for JFK, meaning you should name your modified .BGL AF2_KJFK.BGL, like the original, and not use the name suggested by ADE. And, check you don't have removed by mistake the other AFCAD (the one that adds the Approaches) named APPR_KJFK.BGL.

[jc880]

Only 1 JFK AFCAD (AF2_KJFK.bgl) in FSDT JFK scenery directory.
appr_KJFK.BGL for Canarsie approach also present. The prior
scenery, FRF-KJFK has been removed from the disk and deleted
from FS. Both manual/automated searches show no other kjfk afcad
other than the one for FSDT.

Observation:
 AFX can be used to modify gate assignments but not runway
 opening/closings. Renders afcad unusable.
 AFCAD on the otherhand can be used for both without harming
 the running of the afcad.  I was using AFX before.

I modified the gate assignments in the original afcad for some
older carriers that I use.  This afcad runs same as original.

I then opened this afcad with ADE with option to keep the XML
source file when compiling a .BGL .  I then saved the airport
without changes giving me an .ad2 file.  I then compiled this
file giving me a .bgl and .xml file.  I then edited this xml
file setting DeleteAllApproaches to FALSE. I then compiled the
xml with bglcomp.exe producing AF2_KJFK.bgl which I placed in
the FSDT JFK scenery directory. Recompiled ai traffic. This
afcad doesn't run properly. All ground traffic is disabled and
incoming arrivals are using phantom runways.

I then went back to previous afcad and with AFCAD2 closed 31R
to takeoffs.  Worked fine.

I then closed 31L to landings. Change was ignored by ai traffic.
Landings on 31L continued.

I then closed 4L/22R to landings. This had the effect of disabling
the runway so I reset it.

I then closed 13L to takeoffs and this worked as intended.
Next, I closed 13R to landings. This had the effect of disabling
the runway so I had to reset.

Summary:
 I can close 13L/31R to takeoffs.
 I can close 31L to landings without effect.

 I cannot close 4L/22R to landings without disabling the runway.
 I cannot close 13R to landings with disabling the runway. I had
 assumed that since 13R is not ILS it would not be used by ai but
 I was in error as it is readily used contrary to reality.

 So, I can close runways to takeoffs but not landings.

 All xml files that I produce with ADE show the DeleteAirport data
 all set to TRUE and setting them all to FALSE and recompiling with
 bglcomp doesn't correct anything.
 AFX can be use to modify gate assignments but cannot be used for
 opening/closing runways - use AFCAD2.

My needs are to close 13R/31L, 4L/22R to landings. I'm no expert with
this by any means so all help is greatly appreciated. Has anyone
accomplished this?  If so, how?

Thanks,
Jim

[jc880]

To verify that no other afcad is present I deactivated
FSDT JFK. I also keep all of my afcads (FSDT excepted)
in one folder. I then compiled FSNavigator without FSDT
JFK and without the afcad folder. FS then loads the default JFK
airport and FSNavigator indicates this is Scenery/NAME/
Scenery file AP928170.BGL.  I then compiled FSNavigator
again, this time with the afcad folder and again without
FSDT JFK. FS again shows the default JFK and FSNavigator
again shows it to be AP928170.BGL. If another afcad were
present it would have listed it.

Lastly, I reactivated FSDT JFK in FS. Compiled FSNavigator
with the afcad folder and FSDT JFK. FS loads the FSDT
scenery and FSNavigator indicates it to be the FSDT Scenery
file AF2_JFK.bgl.

Therefore, the only
JFK afcad present is AF2_JFK.bgl in the FSDT JFK scenery
file.

Thanks,
Jim

[virtuali]

I'm sorry, but helping with editing the supplied AFCAD is a little bit beyond to what can be considered user support (the provided AFCAD works fine).

I think you are hitting several flightsim limitations, which are probably well known to expert AFCAD users, and something must have gone wrong or missed in the process. Opening/closing runways, for example, is not so straightforward as it looks like.

Have you tried starting with the original AFCAD for the normal ILS, instead of the Canarsie one ?

[jc880]

>>>Have you tried starting with the original AFCAD for the normal ILS, instead of the Canarsie one ?>>>

No, I haven't tried that.  I'll see if that makes a diff.  If not, I can live with it.

Thanks,
Jim

[jc880]

 
I tried and it made no difference.  I also removed the appr_KJFK bgl and it made no
difference.  The problem is not insignificant as regards realism.  FS allocates runways
based on which is closer to the aircraft in question.  For domestic traffic, most comes
in from the south of the airport so it is sent to 31L rather than 31R.  This compounds the
problem of traffic trying to takeoff from 31L.  Same issue for 4L/22R.  What we have,
as far as I can determine, is magnificent scenery with a wonderful approach set up for
13L but marred by a totally inability to set the other runways for realistic use.  I hope
some enterprising soul can find a fix as I have pretty much exhausted what little I know.

--Jim