Author Topic: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru  (Read 57294 times)

cmpbllsjc

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2010, 02:22:30 am »
My bad, I misunderstood.

Will try again now and report back.

cmpbllsjc

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2010, 03:24:10 am »
OK. Good news I think.

I set the both xml's like you wanted to nothing will start except Addon Manager and Couatl and put your mesh.bgl in the FSDT/KDFW/Scenery folder.

I started FSX with Mesh Comp at 100 and Mesh Res at 10m, selected the Realair SF260 and flew a few times around. For the first time with your mesh.bgl active I didn't get any bleeds, a flew little flashes in those couple grassy areas in the south east corner, but no bleeds or bad flickers.

Then I landed and changed planes to the Quest Kodiak. Everything still working ok, but after switching planes without exiting the flight the PAPI's stayed all white.


Just to mix the test up, I completely closed FSX, opened it again, still same settings and started flight at KDFW with the Quest Kodiak. Everything worked good again no bleeds or bad flickers except the one grassy area. Also the PAPIs worked correctly.

Then I changed planes again and still everything working good again, except that it seems like changing planes makes you lose the PAPI's.

One other thing of note. With the mesh.bgl back in, I am getting the tug and van that circle Terminal D slightly buried. The van is sunken about 1/2 way as well as the tug. Same thing also on Terminal E or C with the van slightly below the surface. Unfortunatley I didn't make a note for sure if it was E or C.


What would you like me to do next?

virtuali

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2010, 10:21:17 am »
I set the both xml's like you wanted to nothing will start except Addon Manager and Couatl

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For the first time with your mesh.bgl active I didn't get any bleeds, a flew little flashes in those couple grassy areas in the south east corner, but no bleeds or bad flickers.

Ok, I think this probably proves that in your case, the bleeding wasn't caused by the scenery, but from another module that is interferring. The issue is: it would be impossible to do the ground with our method with normal FSX SDK without having severe flickering. So, we need to use Simconnect commands to stop the flickering to appear.

Now, if there's another addon module that is sending too many commands in a short time, it might be the communication channel between FSX and the addons is too busy so, our module doesn't get much chances to send its commands, hence the flickering/bleeding...

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What would you like me to do next?

Enable back your modules, ONE A THE TIME, and test each time, until you find which one is causing this.

petsumnets

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2010, 11:07:02 am »
Guess there are no news abaout the flickering/breaking textures.

As I said before, I ran the installer again but it doesn't show any difference. Before and after are the same. Badly flickering textures still over the whole place while in top-down view and DBS walk and follow navigation.

virtuali

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2010, 11:19:33 am »
Guess there are no news abaout the flickering/breaking textures.

There were lots of news, instead, if you follwed the thread...

You two were having to entirely different issues: cmpbllsjc problem seems to be caused by another addon module, because he was having flickering in *every* view, not just Top-down or custom cameras.

You, instead, were having flickers ONLY in those views, but the scenery works normally in the standard views.


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As I said before, I ran the installer again but it doesn't show any difference. Before and after are the same. Badly flickering textures still over the whole place while in top-down view and DBS walk and follow navigation.

Ok, this means the standard views were always right. As I've said, the updated Addon Manager update wasn't supposed to fix those other views, it was just a test, to be SURE what your problem was.

In any case, we'll still try to research a bit about this but, I'm afraid the flickering in the Top-down view can't be entirely fixable, without creating much worse side effects, which would happen when you open TWO views at the same time, like a standard view and a smaller Top-down view as a map. We could be fix each view separately, but if they are open together, they can't be both corrected.

So, I'm sorry but, it's not really a bug of the scenery, but a consequence of how it's made which, in turns, is what makes possible such performances and quality, which would have been otherwise impossible in FSX, with an airport of this size. I think getting flickers in Top-down view it's a reasonable compromise.

cmpbllsjc

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2010, 11:22:13 am »
Enable back your modules, ONE A THE TIME, and test each time, until you find which one is causing this.

I had a feeling that was what you were going to say. So, I had actually already started doing it.

Here's what happened though. I only changed the one entry for the Level S simulations from True to False so that I could use this plane. I started FSX and selected the LDS 767 with a flight beginning at runway 18L. This was also with no AI turned on and just Addon Manager running and Level D-Sim running. When I took off I started getting the bleeding again. I quit FSX completely and then reopened it and started another flight from KTKI Mckinney, TX which is about 30 miles north of DFW with the LDS 767 again. I flew to the airport, over the runways and around the airport then landed and no problem with the textures. So it seemed that when I started at DFW with the LDS 767 I had problem, but when I started at another airport and flew here no problem and this was done with the same settings.

Having said that, what if there is no way to have all the modules turned on or some of them turned on and still get the ground to work ok because sim-connect is getting flooded?

I have a decent computer E8400 at 3.85 ghz, GTS 250 OC 1GB, 2 GB ram at 1088mhz and all the other FSDT sceneries work ok and I am getting good FPS here.

Would it be possible to have some type of alternate ground textures that would work seperate from Simconnect so that for some of us who have lots of info going thru simconnect we can avoid this problem? Prior to having all the stuff in the dll.xml and exe.xml turned off, I did have a marked improvement in the ground bleeds with the mesh.bgl removed so maybe a flatten would work better for some of us even if it means the PAPI's dont work correctly all the time?

Frankly as much as I love this airport, I am scared that if I cant pinpoint which module or the amount of modules running that I and maybe others will be having this problem with the ground textures. Let me know if there is another type of solution in case this arises.

The problem these days is there are so many items running thru simconnect for me like Active Sky Advanced, Ultimate Traffic, Addon Manager, LDS 767, and maybe other things that I dont even know about that rely on simconnect.

One last thing. Is there any particular order that the different addons should be listed in dll.xml that may make a difference as far as priority.

Thanks for all the help so far and as you can see by the time I put in to test and try things I am willing to try just about anything to get this to work for me all the time. I hope that if I cant get this ironed out that maybe you can help me with some other alternate ground/flatten/mesh, since this is the only probelm.

Thanks

Sean

petsumnets

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2010, 12:22:19 pm »
The problem cmpbllsjc has is a way too complicated for me to understand and to follow. I am a beginner and I just want to enjoy your beautiful scenery but it is a pity that now KDFW has this flickering problem while all the other dreamteam airports work perfectly and are just wonderful. I understand that KDFW is made with new techniques but it doens't take away the fact that the side effects are in my case flickering textures which makes KDFW enjoying KDFW only for 50%.

Mesh and dll.xml and exe.xml is like chinease to me which I just don t understand. I just want to download, install pay and enjoy. In this particular case, enjoying is difficult because walk and follow is a wonderful tool which makes it possible to navigate to every single pixel of the scenery. But the side effect is disappointing, despite the new techniques.

Thanks a lot anyway for your quick answers and support. I appreciate a lot.



virtuali

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2010, 02:14:02 pm »
but it doens't take away the fact that the side effects are in my case flickering textures which makes KDFW enjoying KDFW only for 50%.

You mean you fly 50% of the time using the Top Down view?? As I've said, we could fix it, but it still won't work when two views (normal and Top-down) are opened at the same time.

What will happen in that case, would the Top-down view will be flicker-free, but the ALL the other views, which are the most important for flying (if opened together with a Top-down view), will be unusable.

So, I guess we really can't win, because there would always be someone that will complain that, not being able to open a Top-down view together with a normal view, would made the scenery 50% less useful so, we have to make a choice, and the only one that make sense, it's preserving the main views used for flying.

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Mesh and dll.xml and exe.xml is like chinease to me which I just don t understand.

Your isssue doesn't have anything to do with any of this, we simply verified it.

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In this particular case, enjoying is difficult because walk and follow is a wonderful tool which makes it possible to navigate to every single pixel of the scenery.

I'm sorry, this simply means this scenery is not compatible with DBS walk and follow. Allowing users to check compatibility with their existing addons, is the main reason why we offer a Trial version. Only you can evaluate how it works with *your* preferred combination of addons and then, decide to buy it or not.

For example, none of our sceneries works with the "Instant replay" feature in FSX. That's something that might be annoying, but there's no way around, because it's due to how their are made, but it something people have come to accept, because we have several advantages in exchange.

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But the side effect is disappointing, despite the new techniques.

We think that not being able to use Top-down view or DBS without flickering, it's very minor issue, compared to having a scenery unflyable (for *everyone*, not just DBS users), if we had to do old-style FS9 code for ground, which would have killed performances, with an area so large.

cmpbllsjc

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2010, 09:40:37 pm »
Umberto,

I just wanted to see if you had any comments to add to what I said above petsumnets post as far as any other altenatives?

I have done a bunch of testing today with enabling and disabling different modules. To some degree of success of I have been able to fly the LDS 767 around here with miminal bleeds and texture flashes, but it requires the removal of the mesh.bgl to do so.

Perhaps that mesh file is causing one too many calls for simconnect when using the LDS 767, I don't know.

Anyways, if you could just reply and let me know about the stuff I asked about in my other post I would appreciate it. I feel like I am pretty close to getting this to work well.

I do have one other thing that I notice sometimes and that it feels like the my a/c want to stick to the surface of the ground a bit more than usual and that they feel like they lurch a little when taxing. Anything I can do about that?

Thanks

virtuali

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2010, 10:14:12 pm »
Perhaps that mesh file is causing one too many calls for simconnect when using the LDS 767, I don't know.

No, the mesh file it's a plain standard .BGL, it's not handled or affected by Simconnect. But the hi-res photoreal ground can and, from your report, it seems there's a difference if there are many other modules active.

cmpbllsjc

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2010, 10:24:49 pm »
OK, so are you able to provide any alternatives that I could try?

virtuali

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2010, 10:32:07 pm »
So it seemed that when I started at DFW with the LDS 767 I had problem, but when I started at another airport and flew here no problem and this was done with the same settings.

Does it happen with a default airplane and with the Level-d module disabled ? Sorry, but there are no shortcuts, as soon as you find a possible issue, there's no other way, than isolate items one by one.

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Having said that, what if there is no way to have all the modules turned on or some of them turned on and still get the ground to work ok because sim-connect is getting flooded?

First, we need to discover what module is flooding (if this is the issue) Simconnect. Once you know that, you'll have to decide if that module is worth more or less KDFW, and decide which one to use it.

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I have a decent computer E8400 at 3.85 ghz, GTS 250 OC 1GB, 2 GB ram at 1088mhz and all the other FSDT sceneries work ok and I am getting good FPS here.

If Simconnect is really getting flooded (we still are not 100% sure), it's not really depending on hardware capabilities, it can happen with any system. Other FSDT sceneries doesn't have anything in common with KDFW, with regard to this issue.

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Would it be possible to have some type of alternate ground textures that would work seperate from Simconnect so that for some of us who have lots of info going thru simconnect we can avoid this problem?

We don't use Simconnect for the ground just for run: until now, NO FSX scenery was ever be able be drawn using fully native FSX code, because it would simply flicker like mad. The Addon Manager use Simconnect just to solve that problem and without it, it wouldn't been possible to do that kind of ground in the first place, which is the one and only thing that makes KDFW running and looking so good in FSX, compared to all other sceneries (including our previous ones), with the aggravation than KDFW is so large that, if we had to use FS9 methods, it would looked far worse (blurrier than JFK, at least) and it would have been almost unflyable.


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Prior to having all the stuff in the dll.xml and exe.xml turned off, I did have a marked improvement in the ground bleeds with the mesh.bgl removed so maybe a flatten would work better for some of us even if it means the PAPI's dont work correctly all the time?

The scenery can't just use a flatten, because it's not flat! It's fully 3d, a simple flatten would kill the mesh, which makes possible the elevated taxiways.

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Frankly as much as I love this airport, I am scared that if I cant pinpoint which module or the amount of modules running that I and maybe others will be having this problem with the ground textures.

You CAN, if you simply follow my advice, and test every module one by one. DO NOT remove mesh.bgl, if you keep changing multiple variables, you'll never find the solution.

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The problem these days is there are so many items running thru simconnect for me like Active Sky Advanced, Ultimate Traffic, Addon Manager, LDS 767, and maybe other things that I dont even know about that rely on simconnect.

What uses Simconnect, it's either in DLL.XML or EXE.XML  so, it's no difficult at all finding it out. If a product uses Simconnect without being listed in the XML files, it's a module that requires the user to manually launching it so, it's not difficult to find either.

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One last thing. Is there any particular order that the different addons should be listed in dll.xml that may make a difference as far as priority.

It doesn't make any difference in regard of Simconnect usage. There might be differences in compatilibility: some modules simply don't run if another module is loaded first. But that would simply kill one module. If they work, they will work just the same, regardless of the order.

cmpbllsjc

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2010, 10:43:37 pm »
OK, much appreciated reply.

I will go back and start one by one with the dll.xml first then move to the exe.xml all with having that mesh.bgl back in place and see what happens.


cmpbllsjc

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2010, 12:37:55 am »
Umberto,

I have just completed running the tests in the last two day by doing what you said amd starting with only the basic exe.xml and dll.xml and Addon Manager and Couatl running, then adding back in dll modules one at a time. Below are the results.



1st test

DLL.xml - Enabled Modules
-Addon Manager

EXE.xml - Enabled Modules
-Couatl

Result: Everything worked fine, no bleeds but a few little flashes where others have reported.

_______________________________________________________________

2nd test

DLL.xml - Enabled Modules
-Addon Manager
-Level D Simulations <- Added

EXE.xml - Enabled Modules
-Couatl

Result: Everything worked fine,  no bleeds but a few little flashes where others have reported.


_______________________________________________________________

3rd test

DLL.xml - Enabled Modules
-Addon Manager
-Level D Simulations
-VistaMare Core <- Added

EXE.xml - Enabled Modules
-Couatl

Result: Everything worked fine except I did notice that after changing a/c the PAPI's didn't work right. I also did a scenery refresh and that didn't reset them.

_______________________________________________________________

4th test

DLL.xml - Enabled Modules
-Addon Manager
-Level D Simulations
-VistaMare Core

EXE.xml - Enabled Modules
-Couatl
-UT2 (Ultimate Traffic) <- Added

****Left the dll.xml alone and added the Ultimate Traffic back into the exe.xml

Results: Started getting the really bad texture flickering and bleeding on the ground again. Although it was intermittent. I did 6 seperate flights all from scratch, meaning I completely restarted FSX each time. Only 1 time did the ground textures not bleed, all the other times I got the bleeding and flickering one the ground.

****Also disabled transparence AA in nHancer

Also note that with UT2 running while getting the texture flickering/bleeding on the ground texture I was getting good performance otherwise.


_______________________________________________________________

5th test

DLL.xml - Enabled Modules
-Addon Manager
-Level D Simulations
-VistaMare Core

EXE.xml - Enabled Modules
-Couatl
-EZdok camera addon <- Added

****Left everything the same but disabled UT2 since it was shown to cause problems. Enabled EZdok camera instead.

Results;

1st flight I got lots of flickering and bleeds when flying around. Rebooted computer and tried a 2nd flight. In the second flight everything worked fine and had only minor flashes once in a while and no bleeds. Quit FSX and restarted a new flight. Next flight and the few remaining tries the flickering gound textures and bleeds were back again.

_______________________________________________________________


Conclusion: I didn't even bother doing a test with Ultimate Traffic and EZdok camera both enabled since either one by itself causes the problem.

I did note that disabling the Transparence AA in the nVidia control panel did make a slight difference, but when using UT2 or EZdok I still had the major problems. I also did notice that even when things were working correctly having only the necessary dll's loaded that sometimes if I switched camera postions for example the LDS 767 has a wing view or tail view I would sometimes get the flickers. Those cameras were set at a zoom of .80.

So based on this testing I can agree to live without using EZdok when I fly into/out of KDFW. However I hate to have to fly with no AI since I would have to turn it off in the dll.xml prior to the flight. So that means either going to DFW or leaving DFW I will be unable to run my traffic program.

Having said all that, I have a proposal for you.

Since you said you can work to solve stuff like this on a case by case basis I will ask.

Since you have all the stuff for the ground textures can you make me a ground texture that is either .bgl based or runs independant from Addon Manager/simconnect since this is the only part of the airport that is giving me problems?

They can be:

-Lower res if needed
-No speculars or bumps
-Not able to support rain
-Not able to support a/c shadows

I am willing to give up all those features if it means I can get a solid ground that will work by itself. Frankly, as neat as the speculars/bump maps are on the ground, rain effects and aircraft shadows, and super high res ground are really not that important to me and I can live without that since the terminal and all the other stuff looks great. I know its all ground breaking stuff, but I am satisfied with a ground like that of Zurich, Geneva, KORD, etc.

Since you guys are busy and I now it will take time from your schedule I will offer to do the following as a thank you for the extra work.

I will either:

-Pay more for your time

or

-Buy another scenery that I dont already have to help compensate you.

I know anyone who read this probably think I am nuts, but this is how important it is to me to enjoy this airport and I am just about willing to do what ever it takes.


I look forward to hear what you say.

Regards,

Sean


POST EDIT: I did the last few test with the 1.02 update installed.

virtuali

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Re: Still getting some ground texture bleed thru
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2010, 10:25:49 am »
Conclusion: I didn't even bother doing a test with Ultimate Traffic and EZdok camera both enabled since either one by itself causes the problem.

The issue is, I can use UT2 just fine, with no problems whatsoever, and not different *at all* regardless if it's installed or not.

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I am willing to give up all those features if it means I can get a solid ground that will work by itself. Frankly, as neat as the speculars/bump maps are on the ground, rain effects and aircraft shadows, and super high res ground are really not that important to me and I can live without that since the terminal and all the other stuff looks great. I know its all ground breaking stuff, but I am satisfied with a ground like that of Zurich, Geneva, KORD, etc.

You haven't fully grasped the problem: it's NOT just the "look", it's the fact that, using an FS9-style ground at KDFW, in FSX, would impact the fps dramatically. Just for comparison, the FS9 version runs at about the same fps, IN FS9! (meaning, it's running its own code), you can imagine how bad it would run the FS9 code in FSX...and no, KDFW can't be compared to smaller sceneries like Zurich and Geneva, and it's as large as KORD+KJFK put together. If we haven't used this method, it would never been doable in FSX to begin with. If you think the *default* KDFW runs worse than ours, with the poor detail it has...

So no, there's no way we'll do this work, which will basically mean porting the ground layers of the FS9 version in FSX. And it gets even more complex than you think, since FSX has a round earth and FS9 not, we can't even "port" the FS9 version in FSX because, to compensate the fact FS9 has a flat earth, ALL the coordinates of the ground tiles in FS9 had to be manually adjusted, one by one, so they wouldn't match in FSX.

There's simply no way we can do such work, just for a single user (remember, you are the one and only having THIS specifc problem, that you are tied by Simconnect performances), it would be way more cost effective to refund you. You'll eventually reinstall your system sometime, or maybe change hardware, so I'm sure the problem will go away, and you might be able to purchase it again.