Microsoft GAVE US PERMISSION!!!

[sun444]

sun444, good idea about having the extra window in frame but probably distracting in real time as you are saying. Actually at one point I was distracted and I was not flying!    Perhaps if you have four arms it would be possible to change that extra view to other views?

My dream would be to have the mirror at the same size throughout in an extra window (does not have to be too large to be an obstruction) probably top left corner. In this way the mirror / ball / datum combo can be seen as well as any ordinary view (other videos show only the HUD which by my preferred view for example). Having the mirror/ball in plain view would be really helpful IMHO but how it would work I have no clue and how to achieve that I don't know.

However I'll repeat having the NEW HUD etc. makes all the difference. It is terrific.

The actual carrier landing in the video was a bit 'off' but that is not the point of the video.  

As far as Flight Path Marker or FPM whatever it is I reckon is irrelevant for most day carrier landings. Yes these HUD items are useful to get to a point where you can use the mirror. When that may be is up to your skill I'll agree but transition to the mirror when you can rather than just do an instrument approach (during daytime).

EDIT: Another 'window in window' idea for the FSX carrier landing video would be to have the PLAT window in upper right? or where ever thought suitable. Probbaly too distracting for a real time sim use but useful in playback video probably?

Hi SpazSinbad,

would be easier for me if you post a pic or two (just simple sketch, drawn by hand or so) with the constellation you suggest. So I could see what proportions and what content in each window exactly you are talking about.

And I probably can manage to have 2 windows in the main window (for example one on the left and one on the right).

Maybe we have to go up in the resolution to 1080p HD, depends on what framerate I get.

To have the PLAT in one corner would be nice but we have to do this with a non moving ship and I have to check if the cross hairs appear in the other windows too, that would be bad.

There is a lot of testing/flying involved and as far as I can see we have to brake up the video in individual takes, but that's okay, that's what filmmakers do anyway.

Talk to You later
Hans

[Orion]

Er, why can't you just use the PLAT camera within my mission?  You'll have to record the video live, but you will be able to use the PLAT camera on a moving ship.

[sun444]

Er, why can't you just use the PLAT camera within my mission?  You'll have to record the video live, but you will be able to use the PLAT camera on a moving ship.

I'll try that, thing is I've never done a mission and I have to figure out how it works. If You could just explain what your mission does and how I use it.

[neutrino]

sun444, you don't have to record live with Fraps to get a landing on a moving carrier. Just use the default Carrier Practice mission, change to whatever weather conditions, fuel, etc and make a save at a certain point within the mission - for example when you are ready on the cat, or on the abeam position, or at the start. Then reload the save (make sure it is paused when it loads !!!! ) and start recording with FSRecorder 2.0. Then at any time - load the saved game (again make sure it starts paused), and play the recording you did with FSRecorder. It may sound complicated, but it's very easy, reliable and you can even get some custom views from the carrier, because they are defined in the mission. And of course you can replay it as many times as you want Why does this method work - FSRecorder does not record anything else but your own aircraft, however because it is a mission - the mission system controls the carrier and it is always there and does exactly the same thing. Just play the recording from the same moment within the mission that you started the recording in the first place (this is why you need to pause and save the game before you start recording).

[SpazSinbad]

subs17, it is difficult to 'make rules' because you are free to make your own. Not having flown are real Hornet I can only recommend from my reading about Hornet operations. There is plenty of material describing how to carrier land a real Hornet online. Although the FPM may be mentioned it is not the primary method to carrier land IMHO. The only way to do it is to use the mirror/fresnel lens. This is a precise instrument. Everything is calibrated to this device to have a safe carrier landing. Instrument flying in the daytime and using the FPM are a way to get to the 'start', the 3/4 of a mile from touchdown point but from there on during the day / night carrier approach (less if a bad night so you can go down to your limit of one quarter mile) then you need to transition to a visual approach.

Now we talk about sim flying in FSX. Before the magic HUD made by the smart people on this forum it was almost impossible to reliably get to this 'start' point with any accuracy to then transition to the ball etc. However now it is possible. Before the needles in the HUD the mirror could not be seen with any accuracy to get any idea of where the aircraft was to get to a good start point. Now that is possible. However as soon as you can see the 'meatball/datum lights' then transition to that method. If you want to instrument fly during the day all the way to touchdown then you miss out on what is unique about carrier flying IMHO.

Yes, instrument fly at night. Always fly as accurately as you are able and WAVE OFF when you see the RED LIGHTS flashing - unlike some who like to carry on with their deck spotting to do a visual carrier landing. I'm guessing that they are not looking at the mirror at all. [Edit - Generic Advice only.]

I'll stress - yes this is a simulator and some people have better skills for whatever reason, but I see the point of doing the carrier approach as realistically as the sim allows.

[SpazSinbad]

To carry on with the above explanation.... I will concede that some advice from USN says fly on instruments during some parts/times in the circuit and at beginning of base turn. SLUDGE has good advice using TACAN info about how to precisely do a circuit in FSX (with his setup conditions though). This is all good. However I'll stress. Get to the 'start' and then use the mirror/fresnel lens.

sun444, I'll attempt to make a video but don't have multiplayer missions because I don't have such a setup here and can only do single player stuff. The two JPGs show what I have in mind. The second JPG with the mirror in the top left cannot be too big because I want to see the mirror during the approach. The PLAT view would be too distracting in the sim and as you say really impact on frame rates. Having the two extra views would be good for playback video though if it is possible.

Using the new HUD at larger size is the only way to go IMHO. Having a wider view means details are less easy to see, but I'll concede that everyone has different setups and different ways of using the sim. Probably the example setups are more for video playback demos.

[neutrino]

Spaz, if Dino makes the carrier version of the F-35 - because it does not have a HUD framework to obscure visibility, you will have a clear view of the meatball all the way to touchdown  

[SpazSinbad]

neutrino, agree. It is good the way it fills the screen. In the same way the F-35C has been modified to be more responsive (and fly slower) for carrier landings then if Dino makes the F-35C version I hope that aspect is improved, but for sure as I have indicated on his website 'flies like butter' as I guess it should.

Question: Is there a way to have the new FSX Hornet HUD almost fill the entire screen? On my setup it would take about one third of screen (only a guess).

[neutrino]

Question: Is there a way to have the new FSX Hornet HUD almost fill the entire screen? On my setup it would take about one third of screen (only a guess).

The HUD can fill a bigger portion of your screen only if you zoom in and you are in virtual cockpit. If you are in 2D cockpit view, there is only one zoom factor at which the HUD will be conformal - for example 0.80. If you want to fly in 2D cockpit at a higher zoom, for example 1.00, you have to change something in the panel.cfg and always fly at that zoom factor, but you will lose visibility of the meatball right after the ramp.

The HUD symbology is indeed a bit smaller that I would like to, compared for example to the F-35 HUD. The reason is the restriction that the Hornet HUD frame imposes on the size of the HUD, there is no such limitation in the F-35, so I made the symbols as big as in the real plane. They are still conformal, but numbers and letters are bigger, separated wider apart, the ladder bars are wider as well, etc. In this respect I like the VRS Superbug and the Aerosoft F-16 - they have a wider HUD frame which allows for a larger symbology. I can't say however if this is true to the real aircraft.

Also, if you refer to the default Hornet HUD - yes, it was really big in the 2D cockpit, but it was not conformal.

 

[Sludge]

Spaz...

To tack on to what youre saying "wider HUD", I use the 2D HUD view just before the start when Im turning onto Final Bearing and about 1.0/0.9 TCN.  To me, the unobstructed 2D HUD w/newer BlackBox Gauge just underneath the HUD data and 2D Indexer to the left is perfect for unobstructed viewability and flying case I, daytime FINAL approach.

I have three "hotkeys" on my x52 setup for views.  One on the trigger group top right for 2D, the middle for VC, and the pinkie for "locked chase", which is setup looking from center right wing, to left wing, at .60 zoom... this setup gives me all the pattern info. I need quickly.
First off, I fly most of the pattern in VC.  From take off, turn to downwind, establishing downwind, then click "locked chase" to make Abeam call.  Then click on VC to start the 28 deg AoB left turn 4 secs after abeam call, then keep in VC thru "the 90", til I get past "the 45".  And about 1.0/0.9 TCN where I can see the boat and the meatball, then click on 2D, make my 3/4 mile call, and fly 2D into the wires.

Thats how I do it every single time, no deviations.  Others, especially with TrackIR probly dont do this, but I couldnt fly any other way.

Sun...

One other idea for this video too is basic naval aviation flying.  From taking people on "side seat/shotgun" rides with me, the one problem I noticed is most FSXers have trouble with holding a "yellow donut" wings level hold altitude flight.  There is still that tendency of civilian "stick down/lower altitude, throttle up/speed up" flying.  After a few training rides with others, I would make them hold altitude (usn style), then once they got that concept down, I would transition to teaching them "powered descent" where the throttle controls altitude and stick controls speed/AoA, hence holding the "yellow donut" (HUD visual = waterline at 5 deg up/velocity vector at 3 deg down) on final approach.  This proved invaluable as a primary teaching tool and where I have found first-hand that most FSXers would experience the highest learning curve.  Teaching them this concept and making them practice it hands-on, while I coached them over the Skype, was when I saw people learn the most.  Some food for thought.

Later
Sludge

[SpazSinbad]

neutrino, fair enough. No harm is asking: is there a way to change the FSX Hornet HUD behaviour to be more like the F-35 will be in FSX? Personally I don't like messing around (except during setup) the views in FSX - there is too much of that as it is - how the F-35 HUD behaves is ideal IMHO. I'll stress again though, the new FSX modified Hornet clear HUD is REVOLUTIONARY (with all the bits like needles / tacan etc.).  

Sludge, we posted replies at same time. I'll have to read yours but my comment about changing views applies in case of carrier approaches. There is enough to do without messing about with views but I take your 'shortcut key' comment onboard to do more with that perhaps. I could do more experimentation I guess with the Hornet views.

Good idea Sludge about getting the AoA tricks, how to fly Navy style demonstrated. It is unique. That is why FSX with Hornet is such a good carrier landing sim now. Great stuff.

[SUBS17]

subs17, it is difficult to 'make rules' because you are free to make your own. Not having flown are real Hornet I can only recommend from my reading about Hornet operations. There is plenty of material describing how to carrier land a real Hornet online.

I was kidding because those A4s were doing carrierops without the Hud data they have with modern aircraft of today no doubt without FPMs as well.

[SpazSinbad]

subs17, I get your joke but I still wanted to make the point about doing a visual landing. On other forums/boards I see chatter about this 'other way to carrier land' but I don't post on those boards. I just wanted to make a point.

So others get an idea about what 'neutrino' and I comment on about the Dino F-35A under test here are two screengrabs. I realise I like to fly at 1600x1200 with the standard view seeing the canopy bow and seldom have looked at the full screen HUD view otherwise to see that it is distorted (squashed) I guess because it is suitable for a 'widescreen' view? No matter. It is still usable and I could change the view but you know what I think about that.

[SpazSinbad]

for subs17, the pic shows an approximation of what an A4G pilot would see carrier landing on HMAS Melbourne. Having to work with what was available to recreate this view I realise now that the deck view shows this pilot is way too low but one gets the idea about looking through the windscreen to see the mirror and AoA indexer in the same field of view. The gunsight would be clear (switched off). It is remarkable how the front windscreen frame and any other distraction disappears otherwise.

[sun444]

Sludge, Spaz,

I know You doubt my skills of carrier landing. Just in case, I master perfect landings, please check my vid

This isn't the sludge Hornet, it's the Superbug. Thing is the Sludge Hornet has a totally different flight/engine dynamic and I have to get used to it first, so it will take some time, forgive me.

Spaz, Sludge, neutrino and whoever, You provided so much input it will take me a while to digest all this stuff. I'll get back to You on this one in a couple of days.

And thanks for the pics, Spaz, I know what you mean now.

One big problem is, I'm not retired yet so I do have a fulltime job and it also is summertime, that means I don't want to spend all evening in front of the monitor. This is not a tiny little project so if You want to have it done right it takes time, unless You find someone else to make the video.

Anyway, I think You are a good team and really could setup a major tutorial for FSX carrier landing.

Now let me go through all Your stuff and sort it out so I can make a plan.

CU later
sun

Sorry for spelling mistakes, but it is late night here and I'm tired.