Nose high GSX pushback by others on VATSIM/vPilot

[Buggsy44]

Hello,

Over on the vatsim forums, the vPilot developer seems to suggest it might be GSX that causes in nose-high attitudes on other users' aircraft while they use GSX on VATSIM. Is that true, and is this solvable in a future update? Is the GSX pushback sending some "nose up" attitude that is being displayed over the network this way?

https://forum.vatsim.net/t/strange-ai-pushback-behaviour-pitch/1842/3

[silvera]

I often see this attitude and i believe this is happening when the other aircraft is using GSX for pushback. When someone i know uses GSX for pushback there's nose high attitude. I hope this can get fixed. Definitely immersion breaking especially in VR.

[virtuali]

The first obvious question would be: does it happen with standard MSFS multiplayer too ?

I usually notice difference in ground altitude when seeing other players in MSFS with nothing other than standard multiplayer functions, but they might be due to users using different airports. However, I never seen somebody with a wrong pitch attitude like that, it seems it only happens when vPilot enters into play.

My guess would be that, since the variable that holds the airplane pitch has *changed* its behavior from FSX/P3D to MSFS ( we noticed it, because we need to use completely different units of measure in MSFS when pitching up the airplane from GSX with the Towbarless trucks, compared to FSX/P3D ), this might be intentional or just a bug of that variable, but if vPilot uses the same code for FSX/P3D and MSFS, it will likely translate the pitch wrong.

[zebraleet]

I've seen this a lot also with anyone that uses GSX pushback. Whether it's vpilot or gsx as the root cause I'm not sure, but definitely looks ridiculous.

[virtuali]

I've seen this a lot also with anyone that uses GSX pushback. Whether it's vpilot or gsx as the root cause I'm not sure, but definitely looks ridiculous.

The correct sentence would be: "I've seen this a lot also with anyone that uses GSX and VPILOT", because the problem doesn't happen when using GSX with the standard MSFS multiplayer.

[zebraleet]

I've seen this a lot also with anyone that uses GSX pushback. Whether it's vpilot or gsx as the root cause I'm not sure, but definitely looks ridiculous.

The correct sentence would be: "I've seen this a lot also with anyone that uses GSX and VPILOT", because the problem doesn't happen when using GSX with the standard MSFS multiplayer.

On a thread titled 'Nose high GSX pushback by others on VATSIM/vPilot' really? I'll spell it in bold letters next time

[virtuali]

On a thread titled 'Nose high GSX pushback by others on VATSIM/vPilot' really? I'll spell it in bold letters next time

I only wanted to make it clear the problem is not caused by GSX, without sounding to "blame vPilot", because that's how my posts are usually misunderstood. I already explained what's the likely issue in my previous post:

I usually notice difference in ground altitude when seeing other players in MSFS with nothing other than standard multiplayer functions, but they might be due to users using different airports. However, I never seen somebody with a wrong pitch attitude like that, it seems it only happens when vPilot enters into play.

My guess would be that, since the variable that holds the airplane pitch has *changed* its behavior from FSX/P3D to MSFS ( we noticed it, because we need to use completely different units of measure in MSFS when pitching up the airplane from GSX with the Towbarless trucks, compared to FSX/P3D ), this might be intentional or just a bug of that variable, but if vPilot uses the same code for FSX/P3D and MSFS, it will likely translate the pitch wrong.

This posts included several useful information:

- That it doesn't happen with standard Multiplayer. It only happens with vPilot.

- WHY it might have happened. This is a guess (that's why I used that term), because I cannot possibly know much about vPilot code, but since I KNOW we have different code when dealing with the standard Pitch variable through Simconnect, which is handled differently in MSFS compared to FSX/P3D, I think a possible reason for this is that vPilot uses the same handling in FSX/P3D/MSFS without accounting for the differences in MSFS (the standard multiplayer mode clearly does), and if this is the case, it's normal that reading that variable from vPilot and using it as in FSX/P3D would surely cause the pitch to be completely wrong.

With the following information, it should be clear there's nothing we can do from our side to fix this. We are not transmitting anything over the network, we are just setting a variable that is clearly correct locally, how it's transmitted and received (standard Multiplayer or vPilot), is completely outside our control.

[zebraleet]

Thanks for your input. I've added a comment on the Vatsim forum thread linking back here so hopefully it can be looked into.

https://forum.vatsim.net/t/strange-ai-pushback-behaviour-pitch/1842/8

[Dave5150]

I came here to check on this as well... I could never tell if this was a GSX issue, or Vpilot issue. Recently I bought XP12 and loaded XPilot for it, same exact issue. So it seems it's more something GSX needs to fix. No other pushback utility does this on VATSIM. Maybe GSX could code it so that if it detects VATSIM then no pitch data it sent? Very simplistic I know, but just a thought.

[Captain Kevin]

I came here to check on this as well... I could never tell if this was a GSX issue, or Vpilot issue. Recently I bought XP12 and loaded XPilot for it, same exact issue. So it seems it's more something GSX needs to fix. No other pushback utility does this on VATSIM. Maybe GSX could code it so that if it detects VATSIM then no pitch data it sent? Very simplistic I know, but just a thought.

I'm befuddled. You loaded XPilot in X-Plane 12 and had the exact same issue, so you believe it's a GSX issue? As far as I know, GSX doesn't even exist in X-Plane. In fact, I don't think FSDreamteam even has any X-Plane products at all. Given the above, how would GSX cause an issue in a simulator that it was never even designed for.

[virtuali]

I'm befuddled. You loaded XPilot in X-Plane 12 and had the exact same issue, so you believe it's a GSX issue?

Maybe he wanted to say he's looking from X-Plane to other users that are instead flying MSFS using GSX ? That would be the only case where he might think it's a GSX issue, but I don't even know if this vPilot program allows multiplayer sessions between MSFS and XP12 players at the same time. Does it ?

[Captain Kevin]

Maybe he wanted to say he's looking from X-Plane to other users that are instead flying MSFS using GSX ? That would be the only case where he might think it's a GSX issue, but I don't even know if this vPilot program allows multiplayer sessions between MSFS and XP12 players at the same time. Does it ?

The only thing VPilot does is connects the user to VATSIM and displays the VATSIM traffic as AI traffic regardless of which simulator the other traffic is using. You wouldn't use it for your typical multiplayer session.

[Dave5150]

Sorry, I hadn't been on here in a while...

Firstly, I don't own GSX. These are my observations while flying on VATSIM in both MSFS2020 (using vpilot) and XP12 (using XPilot) When I would see someone pushback doing a ridiculous nose-high wheelie, I'd query them about it and yep, always GSX. The reason this has to be something going on inside GSX code, is because no matter which VATSIM client is used, the same result is displayed on screen. GSX is the common denominator. I could understand if this only happened when connected to say Vpilot and not Xpilot, then I'd blame Vpilot. But since it's both, GSX is the bad guy here.

All I'm saying is that it can't be THAT difficult for the devs to figure out what exactly they're doing that translates into pushback wheelies with regards to VATSIM, and fix it.

[Captain Kevin]

Sorry, I hadn't been on here in a while...

Firstly, I don't own GSX. These are my observations while flying on VATSIM in both MSFS2020 (using vpilot) and XP12 (using XPilot) When I would see someone pushback doing a ridiculous nose-high wheelie, I'd query them about it and yep, always GSX. The reason this has to be something going on inside GSX code, is because no matter which VATSIM client is used, the same result is displayed on screen. GSX is the common denominator. I could understand if this only happened when connected to say Vpilot and not Xpilot, then I'd blame Vpilot. But since it's both, GSX is the bad guy here.

All I'm saying is that it can't be THAT difficult for the devs to figure out what exactly they're doing that translates into pushback wheelies with regards to VATSIM, and fix it.

I just want to clarify what you are trying to say. You yourself aren't using GSX, but the other airplanes that push back with their nose up are using GSX?

[Dave5150]

That's exactly it. I've never used GSX before, I just started noticing this happening seemingly randomly on VATSIM, some airliners push back normally, some have their nose up in the air. I queried the VATSIM subreddit and forum, as well as various MSFS forums, and most people pointed at it being "someone using GSX for their pushback". I started asking directly via VATSIM message whether they used GSX, and the answer was always yes. Then switching over to try X-Plane (and of course an entirely different VATSIM client), the exact same thing was happening.

I feel that somehow when GSX loads the nose wheel onto the tug, the height of the nosewheel is being translated as feet and not inches. It's no huge deal, but when you have these photo realistic airports and liveries, seeing these silly pushbacks kind of throws cold water on the immersion factor. So whatever the cause, it would be awesome if it was fixed.