CRJ Refueling not working - wrong amount

[mseder]

Hi

Aerosoft CRJ 700
Tank about 1300 kg
Siembrief is green in the panel
"Show MSFS Fuel and Cargo"... checked

Asking for refueling
Fueltruck arrives
Panel is displayed asking for amount.
I choose about 7000 kg
Progressive refueling starts, watching the amount increase on the instruments
Refueling halts after 2680 kg
GSX announces refueling complete

Mats

[virtuali]

Please clarify if, when you said "I choose about 7000 kg", you selected one of the pre-set quantities, or the planned one from SimBrief.

[mseder]

"you selected one of the pre-set quantities, or the planned one from SimBrief"
One of the pre-set. I tried to get as close I could what was calculated by simBiref.

This problem is not cosistent, had 2 flights when i worked perfectly

Mats

[virtuali]

This problem is not cosistent, had 2 flights when i worked perfectly

I tried it now, and it worked just fine.

Be sure you don't have the "Detect Custom Aircraft Fuel system" option DISABLED, which is the default, the option shouldn't be enabled in most cases, it's only required for planes that start fueling themselves after a while during a turnaround simulation, I don't think there are any in MSFS that work like that.

[mseder]

Umberto

Do you remember the very long dispute we had regarding refueling a 787 for FSX that didn't work. Refueling completed too early. I had to send you an amimation before you finally believed me. You checked the code and found out that the amount of fuel had changed and so GSX didn't work.

My conclusion and most probably yours as well was because the APU was turned on while refueling.
I tested it repeatdly and beyond any doubt the APU ON caused the trouble.

I just tried refueling twice with APU ON - Not working
With APU OFF- working

Between every attempt I restarted the COUATL.

It wouldn't surprise me if parts of the codebase used for FSX is reused here as well AND that that part of the code never was fixed.

Check the code, test and get back!

Mats

[virtuali]

Do you remember the very long dispute we had regarding refueling a 787 for FSX that didn't work. Refueling completed too early. I had to send you an amimation before you finally believed me. You checked the code and found out that the amount of fuel had changed and so GSX didn't work.

This is completely irrelevant in this case, because in that case it was the QW787, which is flagged in FSX/P3D to NOT be refueled by GSX.

In that case, the refueling procedure is completely different, since GSX is monitoring the airplane refueling itself and it goes away if the fuel quantity stop increasing in a given amount of time or even it decreases so yes, in THAT case, GSX COULD have been confused by the APU consumption.

This case is completely different, the Aerosoft CRJ is flagged to be refueled BY GSX, so nothing of the above applies: GSX just fill the fuel quantity you asked for, it's not trying to read constantly if the airplane is filling, like in the other case.

If the difference is just the APU consumption, why this should be a problem ? If you asked for a certain quantity, you will be given that quantity, if you are burning fuel in the meantime, it's your responsibility to ask for extra fuel, if your goal was to end up with a precise quantity on tanks just before starting the engine.

As I've said, I have tried it already, using your same numbers, which roughly means asking for 70%, when you had 15%. At the end of the refuel process, I had 68%, which really looks like the fuel consumed by the APU during that time, clearly indicating that even if the APU is running, you are being given the quantity you are asked for.

[mseder]

In that case, the refueling procure is completely different, since GSX is monitoring the airplane refueling itself

Well that might be the case but from a players view in both cases the tanks are progressively fueled.

If the difference is just the APU consumption, why this should be a problem ?

The APU consumption itself has nothing to do with this issue. That small amount do not make a difference.

As I've said, I have tried it already

Yes and that proves nothing. It works for me as well on some occasions.
Something do clearly not work here. And I'm trying to help you out here while you're eager to drop it as you're applying the  programmer's cliche number one "it works on my computer".

Now notice my last example. I'm standing still on the apron inside the same aircraft making 3 attempts with restarting COUATL in between every attempt. 2 of the 3 attempts do not work, the third does (APU OFF). 
The tank contains 1-2000 kg and I from the selection menu ask for 6500. 
What parameters could have been affected? 
Are there any other circumstances to check for?

Mats

[virtuali]

Well that might be the case but from a players view in both cases the tanks are progressively fueled.

Progressively refueled is completely different and separate than "Refueled by GSX" vs "Airplane Refueling itself". This has been discussed so many times, and of course is explained in the manual. When the airplane is refueling itself, GSX might decide refueling is completed by monitoring constant fuel increases. When GSX is refueling, nothing of this ever happens.

You, as an user, not supposed to KNOW the difference, but you must accept that, after I explained it, the case you were reporting about the 787, where the APU consumption might have been even larger than the airplane *own* refueling rate, which would trick GSX thinking the refueling ended, simply cannot happen with the CRJ, not at least if you used it in the default configuration we supply GSX with, that is GSX IS refueling the airplane.

The APU consumption itself has nothing to do with this issue. That small amount do not make a difference.

You said you assumed GSX was confused like with the 787, indicating ( your words ), this MIGHT have been the same with the CRJ, which is why I told you it can't be, due to the completely different way of how the refueling is made, depending if GSX is refueling or the airplane is refueling itself.

Something do clearly not work here. And I'm trying to help you out here while you're eager to drop it as you're applying the  programmer's cliche number one "it works on my computer".

Then I'll try 3 times. Would that prove something ?

[jgniewkowski]

Quick question. I am using the refueling panel on the bulkhead behind the copilot in this aircraft and select the very last option when GSX asks for the fuel quantity (forgive me but the verbiage eludes me at the moment.)

Is this the correct procedure?

[mseder]

"the case you were reporting about the 787, where the APU consumption might have been even larger than the airplane *own* refueling rate, which would trick GSX thinking the refueling ended, simply cannot happen with the CRJ, not at least if you used it in the default configuration we supply GSX with, that is GSX IS refueling the airplane."

No that was never the case, the case was that you recognized that ANY consumption giving 2 different amount of fuels between 2 refuelings would make a change. The case was the change itself not the amount. So that it why it came to my mind this time as well.

In my test-scenarios (this case) the change in fuel when APU is on between 2 refuils is maybe some tens of kilo, while the change in fuel are thousands. So again, the amount of fuel consumed by the APU is not an issue here.

And, after doing 20 more tests the APU ON or OFF do not seem to affect this, so we can drop that cause. I can give the test-scenarios if you wish.

You can go on making thousands of tests if you wish, but testing an application requires flexibility and creativity in order to explore all paths in your code. So a monkey-job will not do. You have to be serious.

[virtuali]

No that was never the case, the case was that you recognized that ANY consumption giving 2 different amount of fuels between 2 refuelings would make a change. The case was the change itself not the amount. So that it why it came to my mind this time as well.

But it would only matter for airplanes that are not refueled by GSX, like the QW787 is. The CRJ IS (by default) refueled by GSX, so it's not comparable and it's not related to this issue,.

You can go on making thousands of tests if you wish, but testing an application requires flexibility and creativity in order to explore all paths in your code. So a monkey-job will not do. You have to be serious.

Doing tests is exactly what it means "being serious". Not being serious would mean "I checked the code, and it's fine", without testing.

[mseder]

ok

I read what you say and I believe you Umberto regarding the 787.

However this problems remains.
Today I started up a new flight CRJ 700 Cold & Dark with approx in the tanks 1-1500 kg.
I asked for 6300 something.
It took 3 requests/refuills before it reached the amount.

Is there something I can do to get closer to a solution?

Mats

[luki117]

Have the same issue here. So i did a lot of tests with it today. Tested it with the simbrief and the default fuel quantities, with "Detect Custom Aircraft Fuel system" enabled and disabled and with running and stopped APU.

@ Umberto, believe it or not, but:
The issue has to do with the running APU of the CRJ. Not always, but most times the refueling process stopped to early (after 3-4 sec/~200gal) when the APU was running and finished complete when APU was stopped.

@All. If you have this issue, stop the APU and try it again. And please report your expierineces here!