Author Topic: Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher ...  (Read 1944 times)

SMN

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Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher ...
« on: February 16, 2023, 09:58:57 pm »
Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher   :o
And that's at different airports. What's the reason?
Looks like there’s a missing LOD model in the tug. When you zoom away from the model the LOD changes
 :o
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 01:23:35 pm by SMN »

WebMaximus

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Re: Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher ...
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2023, 11:15:04 am »
Same thing as with the bags disappearing depending on viewing distance and angle.

This LOD thing seems to be an issue in GSX Pro but as I understood it from Umberto, this is to save resources and also a result of limitations in MSFS.

As I wrote in another thread, I wish Umberto would reevaluate the LOD levels used in GSX Pro for various GSX Pro objects to see if there's anything else he could do to stop objects from disappearing like this.

One suggestion has been to increase the Object LOD manually in ...\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalCache\UserCfg.opt over the default 200% but personally, I'm reluctant using such methods. Also when such things won't affect just GSX Pro objects but any objects in MSFS.

So again, I wish there was a way for Umberto to instead change only the GSX Pro objects currently disappearing such as bags, the pushback truck where only the part connecting to the nosewheel remains etc when the pushback truck is returning after the pushback has been completed. Even when these things don't affect the functionality of GSX Pro, it does take away quite a bit of the overall immersion and sense of realism.
Richard Åsberg

virtuali

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Re: Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher ...
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2023, 06:44:37 pm »
Nothing is "missing", all LOD are complete and correct, according to Asobo own official LOD diagnostic tool, which tells developers what is the correct LOD to use, based on their own calculation of the object size, the viewing distance and its polygon count, in order to prevent the simulator start removing objects that don't conform to the standard LOD rules, which GSX complies completely.

The issue is, the diagnostic tool is tuned to a "natural" viewing ratio, which in Drone/Showcase camera is a zoom of about 60-70, if you use wider settings, all distances change, meaning something that has been properly made according to those rules, will disappear earlier if a wider zoom is used.

This means, if we tried to make the objects visible at "any" zoom level, including the widest ones, we would end up creating "illegal" objects that won't give you ANY performance benefit due to LOD, because when you use more natural zoom levels, the sim will never get a chance to load the more fps-friendly LODs, since we had to set them for a wide zoom angle.

Then, there's the additional issue of "composite" objects, like Pushback trucks with a Toolbar ( and a driver ), which are in fact two objects combined, which give us the obvious benefit of using the same toolbar with different Trucks, instead of creating highly inefficient models containing the Truck, the Driver and the Toolbar, killing any chance for the sim to optimize them, because if you had a combination of those, if they were made as single objects, the memory footprint would be multiplied for each different variant, while now we are efficient as we can, because even if you have dozen of different toolbars linked to dozen of different tugs, the sim will only load one toolbar and would instance it with almost zero memory cost.

But this has some side effects that LODs of the object when used alone wouldn't be the same as LODs of the object used when it's linked to something else so, again, it's the usual compromise between visual quality and memory/fps efficiency.

Of course, we could just be sloppy, save a lot of work, make all objects with no LODs, so you'll be happy they'll never disappear, but we'll kill your performances and GSX would then started to be considered a "bad citizen", since it would take all the resources for itself, not allowing to use any other addon, which of course is wrong.

So, just accept the minor issue of not being able to use Wide angle zoom settings, which all considered is the best compromise.

WebMaximus

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Re: Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher ...
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2023, 08:24:10 pm »
Not sure I fully understand what you're trying to explain to me about wider zoom etc. All I do is switching between cockpit view and external view. Mostly in VR since that is where I spend most of my time.

When I'm in external view and as mentioned before, I never for instance have any issues seeing passengers walking to/from the aircraft. Even when the distance to them sometimes is quite big. However, for the bags for example, I need to be very close in order for them to show up. In VR, this is even more of an issue since it's not possible to zoom in when you're in VR. The zoom level is fixed from Asobo and at this zoom level/distance from the bags when they are loaded/unloaded apparently is to big for the bags to be displayed.

I guess what makes this "issue" so evident is the fact how even when you are quite close to the bags, still they don't show.

Well, I guess we won't be able to take this any further. Thanks anyway for trying to explain.
Richard Åsberg

Pirateinparadise

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Re: Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher ...
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2023, 02:39:46 pm »
I've often wondered why Asobo doesn't implement different LODs for different phases of flight.

In the Gate area, where GSX is used, LODs shouldn't be used at all. There is nothing in the "rest of the world" that really matters at that point. Just draw everything within a 100m radius (or something reasonable) of the airplane, and implement LODs for everything beyond that point.

Away from the terminal, and in the air, what they're doing now is fine. 
The drinking rum on the beach kind. Not the software stealing kind.

virtuali

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Re: Pusher disappearing when zoom away from the pusher ...
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2023, 06:34:35 pm »
In the Gate area, where GSX is used, LODs shouldn't be used at all

That wouldn't work, since you need them more when there's lot of stuff around you, that is in the airport.