Author Topic: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions  (Read 1543 times)

jonz747

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Was pleased to see this option was added in last update, however I just pushed back from Toronto and after using deicing, the captain still confirmed engines started though they were not so for some reason the update isn't doing that part. I have the latest update using the offline installer. Can we just please just have the option to disable that phrase altogether?

virtuali

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2022, 10:25:35 am »
Please clarify if you mean you just hear the voice ( as it was before, and it shouldn't now ), our you expected the whole option to confirm to go away, which is not what the update is about.

Quote
Can we just please just have the option to disable that phrase altogether?

There's already an option for that, the "Good Engine Start confirmation" in the Settings, which disables the menu request.

jonz747

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2022, 08:22:46 pm »
I still hear the voice as it was before

whiggy

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2022, 09:45:52 am »
I also hear it like before. Nothing was changed.

ibeam

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2022, 05:53:51 am »
same for me, as stated above, I too still hear the pilots comment on the 'good engine start' in icing conditions.

virtuali

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2022, 05:43:37 pm »
I'll try to clarify it again: you ARE supposed to hear the voice, but only after you confirmed a good engine start, and that's normal, because the "fix" is not fixing this, because the voice is supposed to be played after you confirm it the good engine start.

The issue was, before the fix, IF in icing conditions, you would hear the voice even before you confirmed engine start, that was an error, and this ( and only this ) has been fixed.

ibeam

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2022, 08:46:15 pm »
"I'll try to clarify it again: you ARE supposed to hear the voice, but only after you confirmed a good engine start..."

Thank you for the comment.  But I hate to say it, I am still a bit confused.  When you say 'after you confirm it', are you stating that I have performed some type of action/selection as a user that confirms it? 
This is the sequence I have utilized:
  • request the pushback
    notified via voice that 'icing conditions' exist
    I select nose direction
    I turn off the brakes
    I turn on the brakes (when requested to)
    I hear the announcement '... good engine start' (engines are not on nor has anything been done by me)

Is this correct?

virtuali

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2022, 10:31:02 pm »
I turn on the brakes (when requested to)
I hear the announcement '... good engine start' (engines are not on nor has anything been done by me)[/li][/list]

Is this correct?

No, of course it's not, that's precisely what the fix was about: that automatic voiced reply not being triggered by your own confirmation, which happened only during icing condition.

ibeam

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2022, 12:14:03 am »
Hi, to again clarify  what exactly do you mean when you say "...by your own confirmation"?  Is that me when I literally start the engine or is there another trigger somewhere? 

virtuali

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2022, 12:33:47 am »
Hi, to again clarify  what exactly do you mean when you say "...by your own confirmation"?  Is that me when I literally start the engine or is there another trigger somewhere?

At the end of pushback, you are being asked to confirm if engines started, with a text message, and GSX will wait for your confirmation. This is done by opening the GSX menu again, which at that point will show a menu with various options, like confirming the engine start or ignore it.

So GSX won't automatically detect the engines to be running, it will always you who are supposed to confirm it.

Note that, NONE of this will be seen, if you close the GSX menu from the toolbar, the manual explains that, when you are using GSX, you should never close the GSX menu from the Toolbar, because doing this will result in missing any text message coming from GSX or any eventual pop-up menu that might be required. This is general is valid in all cases when a GSX procedure is not exhausted by choosing a menu option and will continue later with some messages waiting for something or menus pop-up, for example during refueling, in the time between the truck is called and it arrives, when GSX might need to ask about the fuel quantity, or deicing in the time between deicing is called and the menu asking for choices about deicing options is supposed to pop-up, or pushback, both in the time between pushback is called and a menu with a direction is opened, or before the engine start confirmation, the message about waiting for it will be missed is the menu has been closed from the Toolbar.

That's why, as the manual suggests on Page 74, where the menu is explained, you should open the GSX menu from the toolbar only when first calling GSX, then always use the hotkey or the "x" icon to close it, and eventually close it from the toolbar only when you are done with it, usually after takeoff, even if closing is not strictly necessary.

ibeam

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2022, 12:59:56 am »
I believe I was aware of the hotkey issue, thank you for the extra information.

A couple of things to help me furthur understand:

"Good Engine Start confirmation
This setting control if you want to perform the extra step of having to confirm a
good engine start before completing the Pushback. By default is enabled, but you
might want to disable it here, to save some time."


I have had this disabled since install, my apologies for not stating this earlier.  My original thought in reading this was, if toggled off, at no time would I ever hear this sound file.  However, what I now believe you are saying (this thread) is this will play, it is just I do not have to manually make the menu selection.  That is fine and per my more recent experience with starting the engines during pushback. 

What I am experiencing currently (latest build) is with 'icing detected' voice file being played, I am still hearing the 'good engine start' when there are no engines running, even after the tug detached and returned to the gate.  To let you know, only recently have I ever heard the 'icing' sound clip (probably just by coincidence of where/when I fly). If you feel this is not normal I will be happy to provide the requested 'bug' information per your forum rules.  I just don't know if it is a bug or just user error.

Question; what specific program triggers have to occur for this 'good engine start' sound file to play?
(I understand that I can probably simply delete the sound file altogether)

Thank you



virtuali

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2022, 01:49:06 am »
I have had this disabled since install, my apologies for not stating this earlier.  My original thought in reading this was, if toggled off, at no time would I ever hear this sound file. 

yes, it would have been helpful to know that and yes, of course if you have it disabled, you are not supposed to hear the voice in any situation, icing or not. That's how is supposed to work and, now you have provided with that information about having disabled the menu, I can try testing that situation too: icing condition and the confirmation disabled.

ibeam

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2022, 02:30:33 am »
Yes, I am sorry about that also.  I too will try it over the next few days in icing areas.  Maybe it was a odd occurance to two.  If it does happen again I will grab the log file.  Thank you.

jonz747

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2022, 02:08:05 pm »
Quote
yes, it would have been helpful to know that and yes, of course if you have it disabled, you are not supposed to hear the voice in any situation, icing or not. That's how is supposed to work and, now you have provided with that information about having disabled the menu, I can try testing that situation too: icing condition and the confirmation disabled.

I'm really confused here. The update notes said that it will not automatically say good engine start in icing conditions however it does.  You say that once the option is disabled in settings that under no conditions should you hear that phrase however I have had it disabled from purchase and everytime you apply the parking brakes, that phrase is made whether the engines are started or not and was the reason for the original post to have it disabled because it breaks the immersion when engines are off, gsx says dont start until pushback is complete and when they tell you to apply parking brakes at the end of pushback and your engines are off the phrase is made.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 07:43:43 am by virtuali »

ibeam

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Re: Captain still saying engines started when not started in icing conditions
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2022, 09:58:02 pm »
yeah jonz747, I think he is looking into it.  This is a reproducible event for me, just confirmed twice at JFK (with real time, this is current 'icing' airport.  I just have to turn on my trouble shooting login and I will post the log (zipped), plane, airport, other apps, ect.

You may want to consider doing the same.