Entering VR Can Break MSFS Menus with GSX Pro

[cannow]

Thank you umberto . The last post there was me . The max objects element I thought was from external applications like yourself or AIG or FSTL. I had already eliminated them and your extra clutter setting hence my frustration. Plus was running settings very similar to SU10 . I turned down airport vehicles , walkers road traffic ships . I had a couple of settings at 50%  cant remember which. All settings down to 30%.
Two full flights without issue using iniscene EGLL as a testbed.
As these are all internal sim settings I did not think effected the max external objects.
Could you kindly explain what the max objects comprises of  and internal sim settings that contribute to it.
To help people balance there system .
I was only aware of it due to a post by FSTL commenting on the extra clutter setting in GSX giving them headaches . 
Thank you for your support but from what I have seen and some of posts I have read suggests people may be having similar issues without realising what is going on and blaming your software.
In the end this is an issue for Asobo to rectify but I need more in depth knowledge to raise this as a fault.  Never seen any bug reports before .     

[virtuali]

As these are all internal sim settings I did not think effected the max external objects.

I think that, when the max Simobject limit is hit, is triggering some kind of bug in the sim, which results in Simconnect not responding correctly anymore, which means that basically no add-on using it will work correctly.

Just yesterday I spent several hours together with the other GSX developer, trying to replicate your issue (without using any AI Injection, so we were quite sure the max Simobject limit wasn't hit) and, no matter which foul combinations of entering/exiting VR in every possible situation, ever resulted in a loss of the menu, the toolbar or any other issue.

Tried entering VR on the Main menu, no issues.

Tried entering VR after the flight started, no issues.

Tried opening the GSX menu, and entering VR with the menu open, no issue, the menu just reopened.

Tried opening the GSX menu, letting it timeout without choosing anything, no issue, the menu just reopened entering VR

Tried entering/exiting VR by keep pressing CTRL+TAB multiple times, as fast as possible, no issues.

Tried pressing the GSX hotkey as fast as possible, no issue, the menu just open, closes, open again, closes, as expected.

So, after hours of testing, we were never be able to replicate ANY problem related to VR, so our conclusion was the only possible reason for this, is some kind of Simconnect problem, as if Simconnect stopped to call back our code, as it's supposed to.

Could you kindly explain what the max objects comprises of  and internal sim settings that contribute to it.

Any Simobjects counts to reach the limit. AI airplanes, Ground vehicles servicing AI, GSX Ground vehicles servicing the User, Jetways, static Simobjects placed by the scenery itself, everything can contribute to reach the limit.

I was only aware of it due to a post by FSTL commenting on the extra clutter setting in GSX giving them headaches .   Thank you for your support but from what I have seen and some of posts I have read suggests people may be having similar issues without realising what is going on and blaming your software.

Historically, there has been a tendency to blame the software that has been released last.

For example, when we released new airports in P3D (especially in 32 bit), users that were already very close to memory exhaustion because of all the other stuff the installed before, from memory-hungry planes to more detailed background sceneries, blamed our airports to "cause" a CTD, saying it was our duty to "optimize" the airport to be sure it would run in *every* possible combination of installed add-ons, regardless of those add-on already took almost all the available memory.

I don't obviously agree to this view, and it's just wrong putting the blame on the newest released software: if you are exhausting your resources, it's always because of a COMBINATION of multiple add-on, each one consuming some, not a single one should be "blamed", and I'm saying this even when in this case, we were the ones releasing first.

In the end this is an issue for Asobo to rectify but I need more in depth knowledge to raise this as a fault.  Never seen any bug reports before.

Of course it is, and I'm sure the max Simobject limit ( which has now been recently documented to be 1000 ) must be some legacy setting inherited when that limit seemed impossible to reach, because you would have ended your RAM/VRAM well before you reached that limit in FSX or P3D.

However, the way MSFS is done, that encourages and in some case even enforces objects to be more optimized with multiple LODs ( at least ours surely are ), and the fact it's possible ( only after SU9 ) to create composite objects made of multiple sub-objects, makes the limit easier to reach, before you are hitting into actual performance issues, because you might very well have 1100 objects in MSFS, not necessarily taking more memory or causing fps issue than 500 objects in FSX or P3D so yes, I think that limit should be lifted.

And yes, there are reports about it, both on the Microsoft Flight sim users forum, but also on Asobo Devs forum.

[mseder]

Hi

I had this problem for weeks now and it's really annoying.
Now I'm always a bit nervous before hitting the tab after entering VR.
Will the toolbar show up or not?

Sorry Umberto but I have not really found either a clear pattern or a solution.
Generally restarting MSFS and loading a flightplan gives a brand new start.
But if I then e.g. put away my headset, restarts Oculus app and get back it stops working.

I also noticed that when it doesn't work the black panel that wants me to hit spacebar for centralizing the view never shows up.
That's the first sign.

I've tried to get out of VR using the toolbar in normal mode and then  return to VR but the toolbar in VR is just impossible to get back.

This happens not that often  and again I can't really find any circumstances. But when it happens it could survive plenty attempts of reboot, restart MSFS etc.

Only tonight I've been struggling for having one single flight doable for 2 hours.

I don't know but that Max Simobjects seem like a shot in the dark, not able to confirm or reject kind of. restarting a flight on the same airport and the same aircraft should indicate that this really is not the problem.

And good for you Umberto, I unlinked GSX but that hasn't helped either.

Mats

[fauxflights]

I purchased GSX a week ago and had similar issues in VR. I got up to speed on some of these threads as I sought to reproduce the issue, and here are my in-progress thoughts.

First, I would agree with the thinking that it is not just GSX but rather numerous addons causing the issue. If I link just the GSX mod and lose all else but a few 3rd party aircraft, the panels in VR operate as expected. If I introduce more addons but not the FSLTL traffic injector, eventually things will start misbehaving a bit. For instance, hitting ESC a few times won't bring up the MSFS menu, there will be a glitch window refresh or artifact and then suddenly the menu will appear. If I fire up the sim with everything including the FSLTL injector, it almost always glitches fully with no ability to get windows back.

Another reason for my thinking that the issue is not just with the GSX addon is that the bugs can start to impact non-panel related items. For instance, in the Aerosoft CRJ, my whole plane will be malfunctioning when the panels are bugging out. Sometimes the EFB iPad won't be clickable and the battery switch for the plane won't bring it to life. Or clicking on the door icon on the EFB iPad will open the door but the label on the GUI will continue to say "Closed" rather than "Open (Stairs)" or something. Basically the wheels seem to fall off on other parts of the sim which would make sense if some simObject threshold was being hit. And this happens more readily with my Aerosoft CRJ than with something like the default Cessna 152, which seems to support it being some threshold being hit.

What I did find is that I can seem to launch into the sim running GSX with FTLSL installed and if I hold on running the injector until everything is loaded and working properly, I can then run the injector a few minutes after the sim comes up and it seems to be fine, even with continued entering/leaving VRs. I need to test this on a longer flight, but it seemed to do the trick.

My last note is that the comment about the sim hanging by Markymarksti is something I am experiencing too. When the bug manifests, if you CTRL-Tab back into monitor-mode and quit the flight, the sim will almost always fail to exit the flight for me without my force-killing the sim. I have left it up for an hour and the progress bar gap just gets smaller and smaller without ever completing. This makes debugging it or even coping with it extremely painful because restarts are costly. You can't just quit, kill FTLSL, and re-enter. And, in case this helps with debugging, what is strange is that every time I kill it during one of these hangs, when I try to relaunch the sim, it will always complain that the simulator is already running and, sure enough, that will be the case. I can always find a duplicate or new FlightSimulator.exe process. I am not sure what is going on with that. It feels to me like a 2nd process is getting spun up on my closing the original window. Its strange. I can kill it and I will see a new process start up. I'll try to debug this more in case it gives some insight into what is going wrong.

I will continue to debug this and see if I can narrow down possible configurations or solutions.

[moussaba]

I also have been experiencing this issue. I am really enjoying GSX Pro and it would be a shame to have to disable it. I am able to resolve the VR menu by removing GSX Pro from the Community folder.

Has there been any progress on this issue?

[virtuali]

I also have been experiencing this issue. I am really enjoying GSX Pro and it would be a shame to have to disable it. I am able to resolve the VR menu by removing GSX Pro from the Community folder.

If you read the previous post, it's clear the problem is not GSX, but it's the combination of other add-ons so, you might have "fixed" the problem by disabling those as well.

As the previous poster confirmed, when too many add-ons using Simconnect are used, and this is particular evident with AI Injection programs, they start overloading the sim with too many commands, so it starts to behave erratically so, clearly, it's nothing we can fix, since GSX works just fine in normal conditions.

[SkylaneMarty]

I don't know if this is related to this topic or not.
System:
Windows 11 Pro
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 Premium
Varjo Aero Headset running Varjo Base 3.9
     Motion Smoothing "Always Enabled"
     Vertical Synchronization "Enabled - Fixed 30 fps"
MSFS 2020 DLSS | Performance

OpenXR Toolkit 1.2.4

When I get into MSFS 2D GSX says "Loading Menu" but the menu doesn't load
If I go into VR, I get either a narrow bar across the screen. Sometimes it is white, sometimes it is the GSX loading screen message stretched extremely wide across the entire length of the bar.

This started happening after the Varjo Base 3.9 and Motion Smoothing were enabled by Varjo this week.

Martin

[RedeyeStorm]

I have had this issue as well. I am using a Valve Index. Sometimes is goes away by simple waiting 5 minutes or so. But these days I make sure GSX in the toolbar is deactivated (not white) before switching to VR and have not had this issue anymore.

No scientific testing done. More like clicking my heels three times......

Marcel

[Synoopy]

I know this topic is old about no tool bar in VR , just wanted to say its still a thing because I am having this issue as well. I guess its a long standing issue.

[virtuali]

It's a longstanding issue of the Toolbar itself in MSFS, happens with several  other add-ons as well.

[luki117]

Same problem here since yesterday (update to 3.1.9). But i have nothing other installed the last days. Now i have disabled some things that using simconnect. But the problem persits. Done multiple PC and Game restarts. So uninstall GSX and everything works ok. But after reinstall the problem is back.

[FunktasticLucky]

I went on vacation on September 18.  I tried to play for the first time since I left so everything updated and this problem is back.  I originally used the offline updater for whatever version that was but it's definitely GSX that's the problem. Deactivate it or uninstall and the menu's work like they are supposed to.  Sadly it may be time to move on from GSX as this is an ongoing problem and it doesn't appear to be taken serious and the blame is always placed elsewhere. 

[FunktasticLucky]

It's a longstanding issue of the Toolbar itself in MSFS, happens with several  other add-ons as well.

What add-ons? I have used fsltl, cranked sliders to max for all the traffic, used several map enhancement apps that are connected. None of them have caused the menus to stop working. GSX is the only addon that had caused this issue. I did a complete wipe of MSFS and reinstall back in early Sept appeared everything worked using the late August offline installer. But updated with the big warning in GSX that it was outdated and so run the updater. Its broke again and I can't fix it.

[virtuali]

What add-ons? I have used fsltl, cranked sliders to max for all the traffic, used several map enhancement apps that are connected. None of them have caused the menus to stop working.

Those add-ons won't make the menu disappear as such but, you can be *sure* that "sltl, cranked sliders to max for all the traffic" WILL exceed the maximum Simobjects limits and this will cause, instead, Simconnect to break, so it won't talk with GSX anymore.

GSX is the only addon that had caused this issue. I did a complete wipe of MSFS and reinstall back in early Sept appeared everything worked using the late August offline installer. But updated with the big warning in GSX that it was outdated and so run the updater. Its broke again and I can't fix it.

I'm sorry but, I just made ANOTHER test to replicate this like the unsuccessful one I already did a long while ago when this was reported, and again I failed to replicate it.

- I tried entering in VR right on the Main Menu map, no problems when the flight loaded.

- I tried switching to VR after the flight started, no problems either.

- I tried calling pushback and switching in and out of VR while Pushback was being performed, no issues, everything worked.

My last years test was made with a Reverb G2, now I have a Quest 3 using MSFS through Virtuali Desktop, can't see any differences, other than I can easily switch in-out of VR and MSFS will switch from VR mode to VD-Projection mode, so it's more convenient to use, but I never lost the menu.

So, please, provide precise reproduction steps, because I'm still unable to replicate this problem.

[FunktasticLucky]

I am currently using a Pimax Crystal.  I fire up MSFS in the PMDG 737-800 in stock livery.  GSX is not highlighted in the toolbar so it doesn't pop up and go into VR mode and it will not load.  I don't use FSLTL anymore as I didn't like the hit on performance. The only addons are the PMDG 737, GSX and RealTurb.  I even turned off all air traffic in the options to see if that's the issue.  No dice.  I have turned off all aiport traffic as well. Still no dice. So your simconnect object theory isn't it.  The only thing to try from here is to remove Pimax Play and roll it back to a previous version that's using PimaxXR instead of OpenXR native.

Edit: I at first thought it was because I was at the KLAS with all the custom scenery so I went to KAVL which is usually my goto to test things as it's small and nothing really going on around it.  But it still didn't work. That's when I started disabling everything.