AIG Traffic Controller removes GSX vehicles when it's started

[airbumps]

Reading that discord thread it does appear that between AIGTC and GSX too many objects are being created….also something I didn’t realise, but from what it seems the VDGS at iniBuilds EGLL are also objects that burn FPS and add to the object count.

Can somebody smarter than me confirm what the object limit is and what sort of objects fit this category? Ie baggage carts, fuel trucks, loaders (all default and gsx I presume? Along with the AI themselves….

[virtuali]

Actually, it's not clear to me if it is too many object that GSX is creating in and of itself, but it seems to be a combination of things that create too many objects (AIGTC, GSX, other airport life, etc) such that some sort of sim limit is being hit.

Of course it's a combination, if there's a hard limit on the number of objects that can be created through, no single add-on is "responsible", if the limit is, for example, 1000 objects, it's not obviously GSX's fault if other add-ons already created 500 by themselves, it's up to the user to limit the number of objects created overall, if the add-on allows it.

GSX creates only the objects around the airplane, the highest number are probably the passengers, depending of course on your Passenger Density slider so, if you have a program that does AI injection, you might not way to use the "Insane" setting, which is not default, and it's called "Insane" for a reason.

Those are the ones created by Simconnect.  Now, somebody trying to test this, might be mislead assuming GSX creates more objects through Simconnect that it really does, because one might see GSX-related objects names in the scene. However, for the precise reason of not risking breaking Simconnect, GSX use extensively the new "Attach" feature, which allows to have more objects on the scenery WITHOUT having to make a separate Simconnect call for each one.

Example, a Baggage cart can contain up to 11 bags so, with 3 carts per loader and 2 loaders working at the same time, if we didn't use the Attach feature, we would have made 66 + 6 = 72 Simconnect calls. Instead, we only do 6 calls for the carts, because the carts come with the bags already attached and controlled by a visibility variables. Even the drivers are attached to the vehicles this way so, instead of doing 2 calls (one for the vehicle and one for the driver), we only make one.  Same the Passenger Bus, when it's full it can contain 47 passengers but, instead of making 48 Simconnect calls, we only make 1 for the Bus and the sim will automatically attach passengers to it.

This feature came in SU9, so we use the latest method to keep the number of Simconnect calls as low as possible.

[Kaiii3]

Hey,

it is not about the calls it seems (at least for now), it is the overall Object-Count that seems to be the issue. You mentioned the attach-feature: I guess each attached object is counted as seperate object?
A report yesterday showed nearly 600 "unknown" SimObjects when located at JFK, most of them seemed to be labeled in some form as GSX Jetway. I do not have GSX myself so it is hard for me to use it as baseline to do some tests on the object count, but I will try to do a Demo-Application on the weekend to see if there are issues in the Sim-Engine when to many objects (not calls) are added.

[virtuali]

A report yesterday showed nearly 600 "unknown" SimObjects when located at JFK, most of them seemed to be labeled in some form as GSX Jetway.

GSX Jetways are an 1:1 replacement for Asobo models so, at any given airport, you would have exactly the same number of jetways if you didn't had GSX.

[Kaiii3]

ok,

I have a report that shows 3 unique IDs per GSX jetway:

1: CreateJetways Airport KJFK (i guess the actual jetway)
2 and 3: GetRegion Qmid(....) pck=fsdreamteam-gsx-world-of-jetways

Based on the image I guess 2 and 3 are the billboards on the side?

[Tuskin38]

Here's a test I did. all AI off including boats, ground vehicle slider at 1%

JFK Without GSX - 205 Objects
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/793096178937888828/1022236610215034960/unknown.png

JFK with GSX - 716 Objects. Almost all the Unknown objects are FSDT jetways and traffic cones
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/793096178937888828/1022239000288825494/unknown.png

There's almost 500 traffic cones give or take. Why are there so many traffic cones? They seem to be part of the GSX Jetways, they don't appear at airports without GSX Jetways.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/793096178937888828/1022243275031203890/unknown.pnghttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/793096178937888828/1022243335353667737/unknown.png

[virtuali]

There's almost 500 traffic cones give or take. Why are there so many traffic cones? They seem to be part of the GSX Jetways, they don't appear at airports without GSX Jetways.

Yes, of course, there are random object placed near to each jetway to populate the airport a bit, they can be traffic cones, towbars, FOD bins, etc.  The manual has an example screenshot at Page 6 and calls it as "ground clutter"

They are not created by Simconnect, they are inside the jetway replacement .BGLs so, they might affect this or not, depending of the problem is a limit on the objects that can be called programmatically using Simconnect, or a limit of objects overall but, obviously, if there's a limit of objects regardless if Simconnect is used or not, it can happen with any detailed scenery.

Interesting your screenshots proved how much optimized these objects are: since you had no difference in fps.

[mmcmah]

That would explain why I didn't see much difference between running GSX and not running GSX on the ground at EGLL. I have it excluded in my settings because I don't use the stock one. I use the iniBuilds one and it had 395 Other objects regardless of whether GSX was running or not.

[virtuali]

I have it excluded in my settings because I don't use the stock one. I use the iniBuilds one and it had 395 Other objects regardless of whether GSX was running or not.

Yes, that's was my point: if there's a generic limit on the maximum number of objects, regardless if they are created with Simconnect or not, it could be triggered by anything, for example a detailed airport.

[mmcmah]

Yes, but how much is too much? 395 at EGLL? 716 at KJFK?

Clearly it's up to the user to apportion the sim's resources how they see fit, but quality scenery, ground services and airport life are up there with airplane traffic as things most people are going to want.

[virtuali]

Yes, but how much is too much? 395 at EGLL? 716 at KJFK?

Nobody knows. The SDK doesn't indicate any limits. It's very insistent about LOD optimization, but nowhere an object limit has ever discussed.

Clearly it's up to the user to apportion the sim's resources how they see fit, but quality scenery, ground services and airport life are up there with airplane traffic as things most people are going to want.

That's why there are settings, and that's why you have the ability to exclude the GSX jetway replacement files, which also add extra objects as ground details. Or, you can lower you AI. Or both.

[mmcmah]

Thank you, Umberto, for the response. Yes, we have the ability to exclude the GSX jetway replacement files (which you mentioned earlier are 1-for-1 replacements of the jetways themselves), but would it be possible to turn off other elements, like the cones instead?

Since you created a new topic to talk about the things your team will be working on, would that be a level of customization that could be considered? With GSX being all about customizing one's on-the-ground experience, it seems like that could be a natural extension, even if it's through an on- off-toggle.

After all, so many of your asset placing and removal strategies, as well as your general methodology have been geared towards reducing the impact of GSX on the user experience.

Thank you for the consideration.

[virtuali]

Thank you, Umberto, for the response. Yes, we have the ability to exclude the GSX jetway replacement files (which you mentioned earlier are 1-for-1 replacements of the jetways themselves), but would it be possible to turn off other elements, like the cones instead?

Yes, this is possible, we might add an option in the Config Panel to decide if you would rather use the full version of the Jetway replacement files, or a set of reduced versions, with no ground clutter detail, with only jetways.

[alxvown]

Just hopped on this trend after my post.... So it seems that people get the most "clutter" with GSX custom jetways. I  already have a jetway addon to replace default ones. Because I don't inject and GSX jetways into the sim and exclude them what might be pushing my sim to the limit then? It seems that every airport has a different limit depending on the LODs. Will there be a future update that might optomize LODs in GSX?

[virtuali]

Because I don't inject and GSX jetways into the sim and exclude them what might be pushing my sim to the limit then? It seems that every airport has a different limit depending on the LODs. Will there be a future update that might optomize LODs in GSX?

GSX LODs are extremely optimized and most users would like to have them *less* optimized instead. But there seems to be some kind of limit on the number of objects that can be displayed at any given time, regardless of the LODs.

This is just a theory, nothing in the SDK suggests that so, as far as we know, it might just be a simulator bug.