Updating

[virtuali]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The release notes page has NO info whatsoever about the availability of an offline installer and where to find it. NOTHING.

The release notes will tell you there's an update available. About the Offline installer, you said it was "hidden" in the forum, which is obviously not true, since it's in a Sticky thread in the top of this section, impossible to miss and hardly "hidden". Are you trying to say that, at each release note, we should add an extra note saying the offline installer has been update too ?

I'm lost for words now how anyone can see the current state as acceptable by any means, not even accepting any kind of constructive feedback by rejecting anything I said based on common practices on software development and delivery.

Fact practices are "common" doesn't mean they are always correctly, and I think I proven multiple times why giving a version number doesn't help at all with being sure you really have the latest version, and the problem is anyway moot because, with the latest update, it's quite clear users are getting it immediately now, so most cloudflare nodes must have caught up by now.

[Cygnific]

In case of MSFS it would be nice to have the option to check all files. But not forced on every startup

That's exactly how it is now. You are not forced to click the "Update" button.

for the simple reason of time to check every single file and only needed in a small percentage of cases (1000's with a problem vs a couple of million without) it really isn't suitable to waste 10-30+ minutes of file checking.

What ? Is really taking "10-30+ minutes" to check for updates ? For a single product ? That's unheard of.  When I say "it takes some time to check all files", I mean it would take like a minute or less, instead of being immediate!

Whatever... bye..

[virtuali]

Right now, end users are just installing/updating blind. I would rather a "false sense of security" than the feeling of "no security at all" that I feel now.

I'm sorry, but a false sense of security is objectively worse than the currently reliable system, which will always try to get the latest files, no matter what, and it's capable to restore even missing/corrupted files.

I don't know whether I'm fully updated before or after clicking the update button.

You only need to know you are fully updated after you clicked the update button.

Because every time I click it, I see the progress bar moving, and text flowing. Did it download updated files? Did it re-download older files? Yes, maybe, no, I don't know. Even after checking the release notes, every time I click the update button, it does something, whether its new or old.

The program is telling you exactly what is doing.

And some files are intentionally downloaded every time, I somewhat not sure that, even adding a note like "these file here is supposed to always downloaded, this is not a problem" would help much.

I'm sorry, but this is just bad UX. Version numbers are necessary. Packaging the files with a version number will clear up so much confusion

Haven't even followed this discussion ? WHAT IS A VERSION NUMBER ?

The only way to know you have a "version", is if each and every file that makes the product is the last version, even a single file missing, not right, or corrupted, would make the version information completely unreliable, because you might THINK you have a some version, so you feel safe and happy, when the program might not work because SOME files might not be the correct version, and this cannot possibly be known until all files are checked one by one, and this is done *while downloading* and the check even takes longer than the download so, in order to RELIABLY tell which version you REALLY have, without cheating, would be automatically run a check for all products without downloading anything, than making a second pass to eventually download them, than making a third pass to verify what has been downloaded is correct and, eventually, roll back the *whole* update if even a single file didn't pass verification, putting the whole program back to the previous version.

That would be the only 100% safe way to tell without any doubt if 100% of the files belong to the version number shown.

Our system honestly tells you if there's a problem with the download, because you notice it's *trying* to redownload something if it KNOWS the server hasn't served the right file, but it seems you want to be cheated on, and would rather have a system that will just blindly accept whatever is coming from the download, store "version number" somewhere just for show, and consider the program "updated" no matter what, just because it downloaded something last time, which might be right or not, but we don't care, because there's a "version number".

It seems you want to be cheated on, so we'll likely do it. The customers are always right.

[fahdriyami]

Core File 1 - v 1.0
Core File 2 - v 1.0
Core File 3 - v 1.0
These 3 files are packaged as = Program v 1.0.0.

Now let's say you update Core File 2, and assign it v 2.0. Now it becomes:
Core File 1 - v 1.0
Core File 2 - v 2.0
Core File 3 - v 1.0
The Program version is now assigned v 1.0.1. Clear and simple.

Now let's say the user goes and makes some modifications to Core File 3, and ruins everything. The user knows what they did and will either revert the changes, or delete the file, then run the installer that will detect the missing file and re-download it.

Or in another case you mentioned, the user's anti-virus went and deleted Core File 3 because it flagged it as a virus. The user will know something is up either because the anti-virus warned them about it, or they find out the hard way when they launch the program in-sim and it immediately crashes.

Either way, any typical user will either retrace their steps, or choose a repair option in the installer which should re-download and replace all files as per the latest Program version.

In this scenario, the update button in the installer will not be clickable until it detects that a new Program version is available on the server. A repair button can be added to remove all Core Files, re-download, and install them.

Most users wont mess with the Core Files anyways, only the configuration files which are usually placed in a completely different directory. So this shouldn't be a concern. If a user wants to start absolutely from scratch even with the config files, then they know to do a full uninstall and re-install.

The ask is not for version numbers for the sake of version numbers. They serve a purpose, which is clarity. I hope you find a way to make it work as reliably with versioning.

[Copper]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The release notes page has NO info whatsoever about the availability of an offline installer and where to find it. NOTHING.

The release notes will tell you there's an update available. About the Offline installer, you said it was "hidden" in the forum, which is obviously not true, since it's in a Sticky thread in the top of this section, impossible to miss and hardly "hidden". Are you trying to say that, at each release note, we should add an extra note saying the offline installer has been update too ?

The release notes don't say if I'm up to date. As others pointed out it downloads and updates stuff every time I click update.
You said the link to the offline installer is in the release notes and claimed I was wrong, but in fact you were wrong. And YES if you have such issues delivering updates to users without ANY hint on the offline installer in your updater or release notes you HAVE to make users aware of this issue and the offline installer.
Do you realize that not all of your customers read forums???

I'm lost for words now how anyone can see the current state as acceptable by any means, not even accepting any kind of constructive feedback by rejecting anything I said based on common practices on software development and delivery.

Fact practices are "common" doesn't mean they are always correctly, and I think I proven multiple times why giving a version number doesn't help at all with being sure you really have the latest version, and the problem is anyway moot because, with the latest update, it's quite clear users are getting it immediately now, so most cloudflare nodes must have caught up by now.

I'm still getting stuff downloaded when pressing Update button. Despite no update for 3 days and me updating your software every day at least once.
How do you expect me to trust the updater process now? HOW?

[Copper]

Core File 1 - v 1.0
Core File 2 - v 1.0
Core File 3 - v 1.0
These 3 files are packaged as = Program v 1.0.0.

Now let's say you update Core File 2, and assign it v 2.0. Now it becomes:
Core File 1 - v 1.0
Core File 2 - v 2.0
Core File 3 - v 1.0
The Program version is now assigned v 1.0.1. Clear and simple.

It's a waste of time I realized to make Umberto understand that he is wrong telling all of the IT industry sticking to version numbers for decades does it wrong.

Seems like there is neither any kind of acceptance of the issues the lack of information causes neither the willingness to change anything about it.
For customers, it's a total mess. And counting the complaints about this, Umberto should have realized it by now.

There is enough literature and best practices how to do proper versioning, packaging and delivery. If one wanted to learn, one could.
Better spend hours on the forum explaining why IT industry is wrong and GSX updater is totally clear and transparent. Right.

[FilldasBill]

My installer update some files over and over again. When I know that I am up-to-date because I don't know. Nothing tells me. And if I click on update, the installer download the same files again, so I think, the installer do something wrong, but I don't know.

[virtuali]

Now let's say the user goes and makes some modifications to Core File 3, and ruins everything. The user knows what they did and will either revert the changes, or delete the file, then run the installer that will detect the missing file and re-download it.

The updater already does that, without the users even having to *worry* about version numbers.

But that's not even the point, the point is, as I already tried to explain so many times, there's only ONE 100% safe way to be sure the displayed version number is correct, and it's

- Make a first pass to check all local files, make a list of the ones that needs updates.

- Make a BACKUP of all these files, ensuring you have enough space for them

- Download all files

- Make another pass to be sure ALL files have the correct hashes

- Rollback ALL files from the Backup, so the "version number" would match a completely integral set of files.

This is called a "fault tolerant" update.

No product I know, at least in the Flight sim space, ever uses this method. Want to make an easy experiment on, let's say, the PMDG OC, which DOES have a version number ?

Just intentionally corrupt any file, like the airplane.cfg, check for updates and see what happens. Nothing, it will still tell you have the latest version, it won't try to redownload the corrupted file and even if you remove it, it won't try to download the missing file.

But you have your "version number", sure.

And before you keep saying "the user knows he has removed the file", that's clearly irrelevant: this was just an EXAMPLE that anybody can try, that's why I said to corrupt or remove a file intentionally, but what if the file is removed or corrupted accidentally, without your knowledge, without even KNOW which file is affected ?

You have a version number, so you think you have the latest version, the program doesn't work because an important file is missing/corrupted (for ANY) reason, and you don't even KNOW which file it is, so your only option is Reinstall.

But you have a version number...

[virtuali]

My installer update some files over and over again. When I know that I am up-to-date because I don't know. Nothing tells me. And if I click on update, the installer download the same files again, so I think, the installer do something wrong, but I don't know.

That's exactly the opposite how what is happening. It's BECASUE the updater is downloading the same files, over and over, you KNOW you need the Offline installer! Unless they are the ones which are supposed to be always downloaded, for which we added a note in the Offline installer.

https://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,26826.msg175607.html#msg175607

NOTE: The Airport Services and the Jetways sceneries are supposed to be downloaded every time, this is normal.

If the installer didn't tell you that, and "just" displayed a version number because it "assumed" the downloaded file should be the latest version "because I've just downloaded it", you wouldn't even suspect something's wrong with the download, so you'll use the wrong file without even knowing, leading to possible malfunctions, caused by the false sense of security of the installer told you have the latest version.