Aviation Fuel problem

[Turok144]

Before I present my issue, I'd like to congratulate FSDreamTeam for this amazing addon! 👍 I absolutely love everything about it despite some of the issues which I'm very confident will be ironed out in due time.  My experience so far has been that GSX Pro works flawlessly depending on the following factors: The airport being used, whether it is a MSFS default airport or MSFS handcrafted airport, or 3rd party airport. The type of aircraft being used, again MSFS stock aircraft, or 3rd party aircraft.

Recently I purchased the PMDG 737 700, 800. When requesting fuel, the fuel truck requests the quantity of fuel.  The GSX Pro fuel menu does not appear the way is used to appear when I used the MSFS A320.  GSX is telling me I need to request the quantity of fuel via the FMS system.  No matter what I press within the FMS in terms of quantity.  The fuel truck doesn't do any of the animated fueling that I was seeing when fueling the MSFS A 320.  Instead the fuel truck just leaves.  Not sure if there's anything else I can do from the PMDG FMS regarding fueling.

[virtuali]

As explained in the manual, the refueling procedure with a 3rd party airplane that has been flagged not to be refueled by GSX, is very different and it's done as follows:

- Calling the GSX refueling truck.

- It will tell you not to load fuel just yet. Believe what it's telling you...

- AFTER you see the message/voice asking to use the airplane FMC to refuel, you can finally do that

- The quantity you set must be larger than the amount you had when you called the GSX Refueling. If it's not, the truck will go away.

Basically, in order to start its refueling process and/or animation (not there yet for the 737, we only have the fuel counter at this time), on a custom airplane, GSX needs to detect an INCREASE of the fuel quantity from the time you called the truck, to AFTER it shows the message to load the fuel from the FMC.

[Turok144]

Thank you.  I'll try it again soon.

[kdfw]

seems fueling the 737 is still a problem, input the fuel and refueling animation ends in several seconds before the fueling truck pulls away.

also, there is no “GROUND OPERATIONS” from the “FS ACTIONS” menu on the FMC, “TURN TYPE” options, SHORT/LONG/MANUAL.

[Fiorentoni]

seems fueling the 737 is still a problem, input the fuel and refueling animation ends in several seconds before the fueling truck pulls away.

also, there is no “GROUND OPERATIONS” from the “FS ACTIONS” menu on the FMC, “TURN TYPE” options, SHORT/LONG/MANUAL.

Any chance you are using LBS as the unit on your 737? This bugs out GSX refueling animation due to some wrong LBS-to-KG calculation. @Umberto, please confirm you've acknowledged that as in here: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,26719.msg174816.html#msg174816

As for the menu: You only need to use the "fuel" menu on the FMC (just enter the desired fuel value as set), no need for ground operations.

[virtuali]

also, there is no “GROUND OPERATIONS” from the “FS ACTIONS” menu on the FMC, “TURN TYPE” options, SHORT/LONG/MANUAL.

You noticed the only remaining paragraph in the whole manual that hasn't been rewritten for the MSFS version. We'll update it as soon the more pressing matters are solved but, in MSFS this is even easier, and I think the text/audio message ARE guiding you in what you are supposed to do, which is just:

- Call the GSX Refuel and don't change the fuel quantity yet

- WAIT for the message that asks to use the FMC to refuel.

- Go to the Fuel page in the FMC and load a quantity that must be *HIGHER* than the quantity you had when you called the truck. If the quantity is not higher, the Fuel will go away immediately, assuming you don't need it ( no, it won't "take out" Fuel from the airplane, that would be what we'd simulate if we allowed to insert a quantity lower than it originally was )

[virtuali]

This bugs out GSX refueling animation due to some wrong LBS-to-KG calculation. @Umberto, please confirm you've acknowledged that as in here

Sorry, no, that can't be the problem. GSX doesn't know anything ( and it doesn't need to know ) which unit of measure is used in the PMDG. I'll reply there as well, after I do some tests.

[Phil7789]

- Go to the Fuel page in the FMC and load a quantity that must be *HIGHER* than the quantity you had when you called the truck. If the quantity is not higher, the Fuel will go away immediately, assuming you don't need it ( no, it won't "take out" Fuel from the airplane, that would be what we'd simulate if we allowed to insert a quantity lower than it originally was )

I had a problem with that on the 738. I've used the Fuel page to set my fuel after the truck told me (more than there was before). The display on the fuel truck started counting to 200 I think and then it got blank. As soon as the belt loaders drove away the truck also drove away.

Could thus just be a display error or did I do something wrong? I'm pretty sure the 738 was set to KG for fuel.

[virtuali]

I had a problem with that on the 738. I've used the Fuel page to set my fuel after the truck told me (more than there was before). The display on the fuel truck started counting to 200 I think and then it got blank. As soon as the belt loaders drove away the truck also drove away.

That counter indicates Gallons so, it just seem your requested quantity was 200 gallons higher than it was before you called the Truck, so it drove away, waiting for the belt loaders to drove away first, in order to to clash into them.

[Fiorentoni]

This bugs out GSX refueling animation due to some wrong LBS-to-KG calculation. @Umberto, please confirm you've acknowledged that as in here

Sorry, no, that can't be the problem. GSX doesn't know anything ( and it doesn't need to know ) which unit of measure is used in the PMDG. I'll reply there as well, after I do some tests.

So where does it take the amount of fuel from that I set in the 737's FMC? From the MSFS default w&b?
Anyway with LBS it doesn't refuel properly (only with extreme values) on the 737, while it does with KG (same amount of fuel added).

[virtuali]

So where does it take the amount of fuel from that I set in the 737's FMC? From the MSFS default w&b?

It makes a standard Simconnect call to ask for the quantity on each tank, expressed in GALLONS so, it's completely independent which unit of measure you set in the PMDG FMC, since we are always asking to the sim itself, using Gallons, I can't see how the PMDG own unit of weight could possibly have any effect on the fuel quantity reported by the sim itself through Simconnect, when it's being always asked in Gallons.

Anyway with LBS it doesn't refuel properly (only with extreme values) on the 737, while it does with KG (same amount of fuel added).

I'm sorry, but I cannot replicate this. My PMDG 737-800 is set in LBS by default, and I've just made the following test:

- I had 2/3 of Fuel when I started, that is 30713 Lbs.

- Called the GSX Refueling truck, and I'm not touching anything while the Fuel arrives, as GSX requires.

- When the GSX trucks arrives, after the message "Please use your airplane fuel system", I click the "SET FULL" button on the FMC.

- The Fuel quantity goes up to 100.0% as expected in the FMC, that is 46057 lbs.

- The GSX Fuel truck is still there, refueling progressively because I have the "Always refuel progressively" option enabled, and it goes away after having reached 15343 Lbs, that is exactly the difference between 2/3 and FULL, as it's supposed to be.

I think I really need to stress this again: when the airplane is flagged as using a custom refueling system, and the PMDG surely is, GSX is not doing ANY refueling AT ALL. It's only *reacting* with its processes and eventual animations to what the airplane does by itself.

The only visible difference is, if such airplane loads the fuel instantly, and the "Always refuel progressively" option is enabled, the GSX pause/animation/fuel counter will last as long it would have been AS IF GSX was refueling itself, otherwise it will be very fast, almost instant, because the airplane *has* refueled itself instantly.

If instead, the airplane is refueling itself progressively, GSX wil keep its counters in sync with the airplane own refueling speed, and will decide it's time to go, when the fuel increments controlled by the airplane stop.

To say it in other words: as long the airplane is airplane is flagged as using a custom refueling system ( the "Show MSFS fuel and cargo" option in the airplane config is un-checked ), GSX will never, under any circumstances, change the fuel quantity on board.

[Fiorentoni]

So where does it take the amount of fuel from that I set in the 737's FMC? From the MSFS default w&b?

It makes a standard Simconnect call to ask for the quantity on each tank, expressed in GALLONS so, it's completely independent which unit of measure you set in the PMDG FMC, since we are always asking to the sim itself, using Gallons, I can't see how the PMDG own unit of weight could possibly have any effect on the fuel quantity reported by the sim itself through Simconnect, when it's being always asked in Gallons.

I understand how refueling works and I'm doing exactly the procedure you described. Perhaps it has nothing to do with LBS but rather with low fuel orders.

Could you test my specific user case where I re-encountered the error just 5 minutes ago?
Choose a e.g. -700, e.g. PMDG house livery, that comes with LBS.
Set fuel to 7008 lbs (directly in the "fuel" menu above "payload", no ground service submenu) before calling anything from GSX.
Then call the GSX fuel truck.
'When the voice tells you to load the fuel in the FMC, set fuel to 9000 lbs.

When I did that the fueltruck kept on asking me to set the fuel, also the indicator on the truck stays on 00000. So it seems like it did not detect *any* change of fuel via simconnect (because otherwise it would have either refueled or gone away again). As said above, this happens only with really low fuel orders (= low difference between before and after, like in this case about 2000 lbs / 900 kg).

[virtuali]

I understand how refueling works and I'm doing exactly the procedure you described. Perhaps it has nothing to do with LBS but rather with low fuel orders.

That's why I started my report saying I DO have the airplane setup in LBS.

Could you test my specific user case where I re-encountered the error just 5 minutes ago?

I'll do that now, using your numbers, exactly.

[Phil7789]

That counter indicates Gallons so, it just seem your requested quantity was 200 gallons higher than it was before you called the Truck, so it drove away, waiting for the belt loaders to drove away first, in order to to clash into them.

I loaded about 6.000 kg so that should be higher than just 20 gallons. I'm sure I've selected progressive fueling but I'll test again to be certain