FSDT Universal Installer Mockup: A clearer way to check version numbers

[fahdriyami]

Currently, the only way to check for updates is to either run the "Couatl updater" or the "Coualt updater 2", both of which are confusing. There is it no clear and easy way to check which version of GSX is currently installed, and when updates arrive, which version it is and what is included in it.

This is what I suggest:
1) The FSDT Universal Installer needs to be a clearly defined utility (with a clearly defined .exe) that simply launches without updating anything. Currently I think its using some sort of command for the Couatl updater: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Couatl_Updater.exe" /SILENT /INSTALLMODE=TRUE

2) The Universal Installer itself needs to have its own version number clearly visible somewhere, and an update button next to it when a new version is available.

3) Next to each piece of software, like GSX and airports, it should mention the version installed, and the latest version number of the software available. This will make things super clear to the user and I'm sure to you as well without having to dig into logs. I know there is a Release Notes section, but even that doesnt have version numbers, just dates.

I think these changes would make updating FSDT software more intuitive. I made a quick mockup attached just for reference.

Keep up the great work!

[virtuali]

1) The FSDT Universal Installer needs to be a clearly defined utility (with a clearly defined .exe) that simply launches without updating anything. Currently I think its using some sort of command for the Couatl updater: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\Couatl_Updater.exe" /SILENT /INSTALLMODE=TRUE

That's functionally equivalent as being a separate .exe, without having to have two separate .exe doing the same thing, just with a different interface. If you follow the instructions and always use the Shortcuts to star the installer or the updater, they *are* like "clearly defined" separate utilities.

2) The Universal Installer itself needs to have its own version number clearly visible somewhere, and an update button next to it when a new version is available.

Not required, since when you start it from the Shortcut, it will UPDATE ITSELF, if needed, so there's no need to an update button or a notification or a version number, because starting from proper shortcut will end up with the latest installer start, no matter what.

3) Next to each piece of software, like GSX and airports, it should mention the version installed, and the latest version number of the software available

Having version numbers will only give you a false sense of security. What's a "version" for a scenery that might be made of thousands of files ? How we can be sure that, even if the program thinks you have the right version, some of your files might still be outdated ?

The only sure way is checking all files one by one, yours against the remote, and this is what takes longer and this is what is done when you press "Update", which really means "Check for updates and download them", but that wouldn't fit a button.

Because, if we tried to "cheat", by showing you a version number taken by, for example, from the manifest.json file, and we disabled the "Update" button if your "version" is "correct", you'll get a false sense of security that ALL your files are the latest version ( which is impossible to know, without checking them, one by one ), so you'd miss important updates.

[fahdriyami]

Almost every piece of scenery I know has version numbers. Even if it has thousands of files inside and only 1 of those files is updated to fix bugs, then its a cumulative new version/release.

The reason I mention this is that right now, I have no indication of whether what I have is the latest version or not, even if the software automatically updates itself at launch. With version numbers and a changelog for each version, it gives the software structure.

GSX and scenery are not cloud services for them to not have a version.

In any case, if there is a way to make it clearer to the user that an update is available that would be great, even if it means disabling the always-clickable update button until it detects that there are new versions of the files available to update.

[virtuali]

Almost every piece of scenery I know has version numbers. Even if it has thousands of files inside and only 1 of those files is updated to fix bugs, then its a cumulative new version/release.

They probably cheat a bit, by showing the version number from some file, likely the manifest.json file, to make the process instant.

Want an example ?

If you have PMDG, their update system shows you a version number. Now, enter on any airplane folder, and manually edit the flight_model.cfg file to change something, let's say the flaps up speed of the 737-700 from 125 to 200 nodes, you now purposely made the airplane flawed so, go back checking the updates, it will still tell you have the latest version and it won't download anything. You can even restart it, it won't detect one of your files is wrong and won't try or suggest to redownload it.

Now try the same on FSDT, change the ground speed of the M1A Tow Truck by editing its SIM.CFG, from 3 to 5 m/s. Start the Live Update and see what happens...

The reason I mention this is that right now, I have no indication of whether what I have is the latest version or not, even if the software automatically updates itself at launch. With version numbers and a changelog for each version, it gives the software structure.

As in my example, it only gives you a false sense of security your software is "updated", but my edited stall speed in the PMDG 737 is STILL wrong, until I manually restore the file, because that updater-with-a-version is not really checking all files because, it takes time. If I forget I edited, it will likely have the airplane screwed up until the next update.

This was an intentional modification, just to prove a point but, what if your local file got instead corrupted accidentally ? Ours is the only 100% safe way you will always get the right version of each and every file, no matter that ( working servers notwithstanding )

[fahdriyami]

Almost every piece of scenery I know has version numbers. Even if it has thousands of files inside and only 1 of those files is updated to fix bugs, then its a cumulative new version/release.

If you have PMDG, their update system shows you a version number. Now, enter on any airplane folder, and manually edit the flight_model.cfg file to change something, let's say the flaps up speed of the 737-700 from 125 to 200 nodes, you now purposely made the airplane flawed so, go back checking the updates, it will still tell you have the latest version and it won't download anything. You can even restart it, it won't detect one of your files is wrong and won't try or suggest to redownload it.

Now try the same on FSDT, change the ground speed of the M1A Tow Truck by editing its SIM.CFG, from 3 to 5 m/s. Start the Live Update and see what happens...

This was an intentional modification, just to prove a point but, what if your local file got instead corrupted accidentally ? Ours is the only 100% safe way you will always get the right version of each and every file, no matter that ( working servers notwithstanding )

This sounds like a good thing to me. If I intentionally make a modification to a file, I expect that modification to remain.

If something goes wrong, then I uninstall the software, and reinstall. That process will delete all files, and redownload them. Or, like you mentioned, I can simply delete the file that I modified, and when I run the updater, it would re-download only the missing file.

This is a process that is expected, intuitive, and general practice.

For GSX and airport scenery in particular, I find it important to know when an update is available and what in it is new. I don't run the FSDT Installer every day. But the way it handles updates now means that I have to because at any given day an update could be released and I wouldnt know. No one would know.

But if there were version numbers, I would probably read about it on Reddit or Discord. Someone would say hey, there's a new version of GSX released today and it has this and this and that bug fixes. The same way it happens for the Fenix, for Orbx products, and even for software in the MSFS in-game marketplace. I would get a notification that my scenery has updates waiting.

Unless the FSDT Installer runs in the background in Windows, and always keeps GSX up-to-date, its just something I have to remember to do every time I want to start simming. So it's not really as simple or convenient as it intends to be.

[swaluver88]

think the only reason i would want a version number is to see if it keeps updating to the same version, but what im just gonna do is wait til there are new release notes in the installer, then update it. i still dont get the offline installer or how to run it correctly but thats besides the point here

[virtuali]

This sounds like a good thing to me. If I intentionally make a modification to a file, I expect that modification to remain.

But that was just an *example* you could even try yourself without doing too much damage and easily restored. How the program is supposed to know a modification is "intentional" or it's just an outdated file or corrupted ?

If something goes wrong, then I uninstall the software, and reinstall. That process will delete all files, and redownload them. Or, like you mentioned, I can simply delete the file that I modified, and when I run the updater, it would re-download only the missing file.

If it's something you modified yourself, you more or less have some idea that something's might have gone wrong because your modification. But if happened accidentally, either a file wasn't updated for any reason, or it was corrupted, how do you even KNOW you have a problem which requires a reinstall ?

Unless the FSDT Installer runs in the background in Windows, and always keeps GSX up-to-date, its just something I have to remember to do every time I want to start simming. So it's not really as simple or convenient as it intends to be.

Which is precisely why the Live Update does its thing and automatically *quits* without any stops or dialogs: because it was designed to possibly be run in a batch file or as a timed Task at Windows startup, for example.

Some smart user ASKED for it, he said he has a batch file that it start to prepare the sim so, as part of his startup procedure, he start the FSDT Live Update, which won't disrupt the batch sequence with useless confirmations.

[fahdriyami]

This sounds like a good thing to me. If I intentionally make a modification to a file, I expect that modification to remain.

Some smart user ASKED for it, he said he has a batch file that it start to prepare the sim so, as part of his startup procedure, he start the FSDT Live Update, which won't disrupt the batch sequence with useless confirmations.

This is not something I see someone who isn't a power-user doing.

But it's something I will consider.

Which .exe would I need to set to autorun to achieve this? Coualt_Updater.exe or Coualt_Updater2.exe?

[ogeva]

So the version number represents a collection of files (file versions).
Right now, it always updates (and while at it returns the excluded airports and destroys their jetways), and there is no telling if something really happened.

[virtuali]

Which .exe would I need to set to autorun to achieve this? Coualt_Updater.exe or Coualt_Updater2.exe?

I think you can also put the shortcut itself as an automatic startup task.

[virtuali]

Right now, it always updates (and while at it returns the excluded airports and destroys their jetways), and there is no telling if something really happened.

The "always updates" issue doesn't have anything to do with that it's discussed here, the servers are still not all updated and it's the reason it's why we released on offline installer, with clear instructions as NOT run the Live Update after it, until the servers are ok.

This is completely unrelated to this topic, which was about showing (or not) version numbers, which as I've said it's not required at all under NORMAL conditions.

If servers are not serving the right file, every discussion about a better way to do updates are completely useless, none of the issue here are caused by the updater or how it's made, it's all a cloudflare network problem.

Yes, the jetway exclusion issue you are reporting will be checked. That is likely an updater problem.

[pilot3033]

I long ago got into the habit of checking the Live Update Notes webpage since I've had several FSDT products over the years, but I do agree that some sort of method of notifying the user that an update is available would be smart. FS2Crew usually has an audio cue when you start up the program, for example. You wouldn't have to show the user they are "up to date," but some kind of notification that FSDT has added/changed something would be helpful. As another example, I would not have known the 737-800 was added unless I had been browsing the forums. Similar for ORD, where if you change the runways or terminals I might not know until coming here for some other reaosn.

[virtuali]

FS2Crew usually has an audio cue when you start up the program, for example.

We had this for years in FSX! It was a sound that came up if there were news. We need to put that system back in place for MSFS.