Author Topic: CTDs  (Read 17669 times)

EasternT32

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CTDs
« on: August 19, 2022, 04:23:21 pm »
Hi All,

I'm so happy to have GSX in MSFS, thanks FSDT!

However I’ve had 2 identical CTDs today, i've not had any CTDs for a while and these have only happened after installing GSX, not saying it's GSX but it's the only change to my sim.

Description
Faulting Application Path: D:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\MicrosoftFlightSimulator\FlightSimulator.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: FlightSimulator.exe
Application Version: 1.27.14.0
Application Timestamp: 00000000
Fault Module Name: StackHash_be1e
Fault Module Version: 10.0.19041.1806
Fault Module Timestamp: 1000a5b9
Exception Code: c0000374
Exception Offset: PCH_44_FROM_ntdll+0x000000000009DA94
OS Version: 10.0.19043.2.0.0.768.101
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: be1e
Additional Information 2: be1ee9ae549d770496f97ecca7c2c2eb
Additional Information 3: b180
Additional Information 4: b180b1ed557ec7b600acdb36ba4ca9f3

Just wondering if you've seen or know what's causing this?

Thanks


EasternT32

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2022, 05:40:43 pm »
I’ve just had a 3rd CTD exactly the same.

virtuali

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2022, 05:55:19 pm »
Nobody ever reported a CTD before. The only thing that could possibly crash the sim is our very small WASM module, because all the rest runs externally. However, it's unlikely, considered how little WASM modules can do.

You can *try* removing this folder:

%LOCALAPPDATA%\Packages\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalState\packages\fsdreamteam-gsx-pro

And star the sim, this will rebuild it on the next start (don't worry, it doesn't take 10 minutes like an airplane)

Erwin06

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2022, 06:07:34 pm »
I have the same problem. Since I've installed GSX this morning, I got at least 5 CTD. I just had one in the fenix A320 5 minutes after takeoff while it never happened before. I use LFMN by Justsim with a GSX profile (VDGS and custom pushback). Maybe there is a conflict with the simulator because of the VDGS ? I had 2 CTD just after parking...

blau99

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2022, 06:29:16 pm »
Same problem here, departed Samos (LGSM) in the Fenix A320 and after a while a CTD, never had any CTD problems in MSFS only after installing GSX.

virtuali

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2022, 06:37:31 pm »
GSX runs completely external to the sim, so it cannot crash it, surely not directly, and of course none of the testers ever reported a crash.

However, it's possible that, if your are a bit low of available VRAM, run detailed scenery and detailed airplanes, adding the extra object by GSX might be tipping the point to a possible crash, so you just might have to lower the settings.

EasternT32

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2022, 07:06:09 pm »
Nobody ever reported a CTD before. The only thing that could possibly crash the sim is our very small WASM module, because all the rest runs externally. However, it's unlikely, considered how little WASM modules can do.

You can *try* removing this folder:

%LOCALAPPDATA%\Packages\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\LocalState\packages\fsdreamteam-gsx-pro

And star the sim, this will rebuild it on the next start (don't worry, it doesn't take 10 minutes like an airplane)

I will try this, as for the VRAM, I have a very high end machine, I highly doubt it's this.

I'm just intrigued as I I've never seen the fault module name before. I will keep testing and see what I can find

virtuali

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2022, 07:17:12 pm »
I'm just intrigued as I I've never seen the fault module name before. I will keep testing and see what I can find

That module is a very low-level part of Windows, which deals with memory allocation.

dreampilot

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2022, 10:42:15 pm »
First flight with GSX installed and around 10 minutes after takeoff got a CTD. Event viewer shows a crash with Couatl64_MSFS.exe. Interestingly with a timestamp not matching the actual crash of the sim. Not exactly sure what to make of this, there was no other crash than the one after takeoff.

This was with the Fenix A320. I can't remember when I had the last crash of MSFS. It's surely a very long time ago.

So we have multiple user's sim crashing when going away from the airport. I'm tempted to see a pattern here.

EasternT32

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2022, 10:53:00 pm »
I really hate complaining/being negative, I loved GSX in FSX and P3D, I will love it in MSFS, but I can't currently, over on the MSFS forums it's very clear GSX does cause CTDs.

Emi has also discussed CTD's in his latest video,

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daAGeQow_uI&t=21s
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 10:55:06 pm by virtuali »

Phil7789

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2022, 11:35:13 pm »
Well I can unfortunately confirm a 100% CTD rate with GSX installed (tried 4 flights). A friend of mine who flew with me had the same problem and 2 or 3 viewers of my stream reported the same.
The crashes started with GSX, might be a really unlucky coincidence but at least on my end and what I got told first hand with GSX the CTD rate skyrocketed.

For now I had to remove GSX, although I was very hyped about it and have to run some tests without GSX. I could've waited for the rest of the bugs to be ironed out but the crashes are to severe, quite disappointing. I hope there is a fix in the near future, as I love to use GSX again.

simtom

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2022, 11:48:52 pm »
I too have noticed a sudden spike in CTDs after installing GSX, there must be something happening for sure.

pilot3033

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2022, 11:52:14 pm »
Happened to me a few times, but it was only while loading at 3rd party airports. I deleted my rolling cache which seems to have fixed it.

virtuali

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2022, 11:56:18 pm »
but I can't currently, over on the MSFS forums it's very clear GSX does cause CTDs.

There's only some anecdotal evidence about GSX being the "cause".

I don't know if he's using SU9 or the SU10 beta but, during the SU10 Beta, many release notes clearly stated lots of CTDs which DID happened with SU9 (so, clearly, before GSX came out) are supposed to be fixed.  SU10 has been delayed because Microsoft wants to work more on DX12 stability. So, while GSX per-se, cannot crash the sim, it's possible that calling heavily into Simconnect with lots of features that, before all our feedback to Asobo, DIDN'T EVEN WORK, AT ALL, before, so I'm open to the possibility we might awoke some seldomly used call or feature that might still have issue IN THE SIM itself.

An example is the new Attached object feature. It's incredibly convenient to use, because it allows lots of efficiency and modularity, since objects can contain other objects and so on, very easily, and without requiring any call every frame to keep the objects attached to each other, with better performances, less stuttering and with all the attached object always perfectly in sync.  We used it a lot, for the baggage cart, the passengers in the bus, all drivers, the rotating lights, the towbars, etc.

This feature was added during SU9 Beta, so it's very recent, and I don't know if there are many add-on that use it. And, during SU9 Beta, it was very unstable, with lots of CTDs when LOD with attached objects switched fast with the camera. Most of those have been fixed in time for the official SU9 but, perhaps something so cutting edge might still have some issues, but how could we renounce to such useful feature ? When you are Deboarding/Boarding passenger and Luggage, using the large Bus, there might be up to 45 people attached to the Bus, 11 bags for each carts, 3 carts per wagon and two loaders, you could have an extra 66 attached luggages, in addition to the other objects like drivers, vehicles, etc. If we didn't used that feature, we would have to send hundreds of calls *per frame* just to keep the things attached to each other, it would have been a stutter mess, so we would had to drastically cut down on the people/baggage density. Instead, the attachments is handled entirely by the simulator, with no commands required on our side, so the passenger Bus can go away full and remain smooth. So, maybe we took a risk using a brand new feature that hasn't been tested much but, without it, the program would be way less attractive and way more clunky. If there's a problem in the SDK that risk a CTD, it WILL eventually fixed, sooner or later, it's not as if we are for the quick money, we plan to improve GSX for the next 10 years.

The keyboard handling is a mess in the MSFS SDK, there are still issues and errors for no reasons, plus the inability to intercept a key from the sim, which makes the interface clunkier than it should be.

And clearly, we have lots of objects with lots of different textures, and while GSX might not be able to crash the sim, it IS possible that some less than stable DX12 handling might be stressed more with so many different objects.

What worries me more, are his comments about the procedural aspect.  Something that puzzles me is the complain about how the Pushback operator is too slow, but the suggestion to add extra 10 minutes between the arrival of the crew and the passengers. Sure, it's realistic but, how the "normal" user would react to 10 minutes of nothing ? Most users take less than 10 minutes in TOTAL to complete the whole flight preparations. There must be some compromise between absolute realism and playability.

One must understand the premise how this kind of product evolves. We HAD to redo the graphic first, and it took A LOT OF WORK, we were on the verge of burning out, I didn't had a vacation in more than a year, and haven't stopped working, not even in weekends, and I still haven't gone to sleep since the day BEFORE release ( so I'm approaching 48 hours of being awake, that's why I'm probably babbling ), and during those 2 years MSFS came out, we had to keep pushing SOME scenery at the same time, otherwise we would have gone bankrupt already, if we had to survive with the leftover sales from P3D.

Because users TALK about realism and procedures, but when they SEE the graphic, they open their wallets. If this wasn't true, we would all still using P3D today, because as far the SDK and flexibility is concerned, it's WAY ahead than MSFS. Sure, MSFS has many new features, everything you do looks good, but the SDK, when pure programming is concerned, is only marginally better than FSX, with even few things missing.

Speaking about procedures, we really would appreciate some help, because while we think to be fine when programming, modeling, animating and texturing is concerned, some more expertise in real world procedures is always welcome. Yes, lots of the other services are "the same" compared to P3D, but the Pushback has been changed quite a bit, some of the changes were made even fairly recently, like the fact that now the first thing being done is inserting the bypass pin before doing anything, because somebody pointed out to us it was a big no-no as it was before. So no, not the same.

We know the Towbar should stay separate from the Truck and be attached later, that's why we jumped on the Attach point feature as soon as we could, even it it MIGHT be risky, but the towbar now is already separate, we placed many towbars in random places close to the jetway to populate the airport a bit, but also to show the Towbar is ready to be treated separately, because it's already a separate object, so we'll eventually get there.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2022, 01:52:46 am by virtuali »

Fiorentoni

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Re: CTDs
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2022, 12:05:26 am »
Go get some sleep, things won't get better with too little sleep :)

As for procedures you might want to contact Chock over at Avsim's forum, he's a ground handler in real life and loves to tell from his work.