Author Topic: FSDT Live Update won't install on Win11 system **SOLVED**  (Read 2473 times)

B747HeavyDriver

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FSDT Live Update won't install on Win11 system **SOLVED**
« on: April 08, 2022, 02:30:38 am »
I've had to migrate my FSX Acceleration (on the hard drive, not Steam) and GSX/GSX2 installation to a Win11 system (it worked without issues on my Win7 system I had previously) and cannot get FSDT Updater to install and/or run or produce either any error message or statement of what is preventing me running the updater software.

The new system has McAfee A/V protection and I have tried to 1) Disable BOTH the firewall and antivirus to allow the "coatl_updater.exe" and consequently the downloaded "coatl_updater2.exe" to run and perform the update to my initial installation but the updater software always stops and disappears abruptly after I click "Next" on the FSDT Live Update opening screen. Not only do I not see any error message, the progress screen is removed so quickly that can't even see what the window states about the update progress (a small bit of a green progress bar appears before the windows removal). I think it may say something like "Please wait while FSDT Live Update is  installed" or something similar to that, after which it quickly disappears; Task Manager confirms there is nothing running and no update has been performed - No error messages, no statement whatsoever of why the updater installation failed.

I understand that my antivirus may be a factor of the problem, but there is NO option for me to "exclude" a FOLDER from the anti-virus (only individual files) and because the "coatl_updater.exe" is the only file that exists in the directory until "coatl_updater2.exe" is downloaded, there is no way for the newly downloaded file to run with authorization. Even so, I have completely turned off the antivirus and firewall and the software STILL will not complete, so the antivirus/firewall may not even be the issue. I can see where the GSX installation authorized the coatl scripting engine through the firewall - but not the updater modules - I'm not sure why the software is configured that way.

Is there another way to update the FSDT software? Is it necessary for "coatl_updater.exe"  to download a *new* executable file (obviously the antivirus is concerned with that type of behavior on the part of malicious programs) and instead find a way that works with the antivirus rather than making it so difficult? When I attempt to run "coatl_updater2.exe" nothing visually happens at all. [Note: I run all of these with Administrator Privilege]
« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 01:32:31 am by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: FSDT Live Update won't install on Win11 system
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2022, 11:23:22 am »
Is there another way to update the FSDT software?

Most users fixed any issues they had with the updater by installing the new FSDT Universal Installer. Links are all over this site, the post suggesting this as a solution is the first sticky post of this section of the forum:

Quote
Is it necessary for "coatl_updater.exe"  to download a *new* executable file

Obviously yes, it's necessary ( otherwise we wouldn't do it ), that's the way the updater can update itself. The couatl_updater doesn't do anything, other than to check if there's a new couatl_updater2.exe, which IS the updater that does the actual update job for all the others.

This way, the updater can update itself.

Quote
(obviously the antivirus is concerned with that type of behavior on the part of malicious programs) and instead find a way that works with the antivirus rather than making it so difficult?

"Instead find a way" ? Let's see all the many ways we worked to prevent defective antivirus from getting a false positive:

- First suggestion from Microsoft against false positive, is to digitally sign all executables with an Authenticode digital certification. All our executables are obviously signed with one, which costs an yearly fee to keep it current.

- In addition to that, we use a second digital signature, called "Software Taggant", which is an IEEE standard designed by antivirus companies to try to fix THEIR problem of getting false positives. An executable with this certificate is supposed to not trigger any false positives.

Unfortunately, it seems that antivirus companies, even if they SAY they respect these two standards, in fact they are not or, likely, they trust more their questionable heuristic, rather than the standard they tried to promote. So, for example, "something that downloads something else" and IS also protected from tampering ( which obviously must be, since it deals with licensing checks ) is considered dangerous, because *sometimes* antivirus do that so, regardless how many steps we take by digitally sign the executables, antivirus seems to ignore it.

However, that's just for pointing out we are already doing everything possible to prevent false positives, but the bugged product here's is the antivirus, which are so intrusive that, at some point, you won't be able to start anything. During a brief period of time, Flight Simulator ITSELF was BLOCKED by Windows Defender!! This is common knowledge and, even if it was fixed fairly quickly, it proves how unreliable antivirus are, and how not even Microsoft seems to trust their own security recommendations.

And some antivirus can still cause issues to MSFS 2020, see here a problem with Bitdefender:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/anti-virus-blocking-my-game/264067/6

See here AVG blocking MSFS 2020 after an update:

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?329664-AVG-blocked-threat-after-update

So, now we cleared up antivirus are not reliable in general and can block anything, it's not certain your problem might be caused by the antivirus. Try the new Universal Installer, which re-register the .NET libraries required by the Updater to run, this seems to work for many.

B747HeavyDriver

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Re: FSDT Live Update won't install on Win11 system
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2022, 04:41:23 pm »
Thank you for your very quick & detailed response - I will attempt to find and use the Universal Installer and get back to you (but more, of course, as a reference for others who are looking for answers for problems similar to my own in the future).

Please accept my gratitude for the depth and ingenuity of the products your business delivers - you obviously have created a number of products that seriously enrich the FSX experience for so many users. I can also appreciate your frustration with the way some users communicate their dissatisfaction with your product that are not specifically your fault (as you patiently explained regarding the methods you've used to defeat others' A/V software issues) and how it certainly must get tiresome to continue to point to solutions you've already provided, but I hope to increase your empathy for folks like me who are relatively computer savvy but not devouring every technological advancement in software development. Please know that I understand you're not responsible for all the ridiculous ways other software conflicts with your own.

FWIW, I spent probably around cumulatively 5-6 hours trying to find solutions to my issue, not only perusing and reading threads on this forum, but google searches using key words "FSDT Live Updater Win11", "will not install", "no error", "can't update", and so on and have never come across the description "New Universal Installer". I'm looking at the stickies at the top of this forum ("GSX Support") and even now, to my eye, I see nothing that hints at a new installer method, which is why I ended up consuming your time asking about it. Please believe me when I say I really, really searched for a solution before I posted as it is obvious from many previous replies (and understandable) the frustration of dealing with the same issues over and over again but I simply ran out of things to try. I get the feeling that at least some of the folks looking for answers here are in the same situation, which is also similarly frustrating. Maybe a sticky that is titled "Universal Installer for those having issues updating" might be more informative for folks like myself. My searches did point me toward deactivating the firewall and antivirus but still, I had no success.

Sir - your products are very impressive and innovative, and I am grateful to have them for my enjoyment. Thank you again for your quick, thorough response.

B747HeavyDriver

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Re: FSDT Live Update won't install on Win11 system
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2022, 10:44:23 pm »
First and foremost, again, thank you for assistance. I've finally brought my GSX installation up to date and it seems to be working flawlessly again.

After I found the link to the Universal Installer, which I had no issues executing on my Win11 system, the update appeared to take the form of downloading the entire 2.9.5 installer file (1.18 GB is size) as opposed to the earlier updater which seemed to work through numerous smaller files. It was a bit confusing that when I clicked on the "Update" button, the message that this function did not exist for FSX/P3D appeared and directed me to download the full install file (like I did when I initially purchased it) but then it still followed up with the previously familiar "update" screen (two green progress bars as the software went about performing its functions) so it was bit confusing on whether the update will continue to update or not - I'll gladly let you know if it does or not but for now, all is well.

Nevertheless, it did install and I believe I have the latest updates. Again, the GSX/GSX2 package is superb and I thank you and your team for a fantastic add-on!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 10:46:46 pm by B747HeavyDriver »

virtuali

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Re: FSDT Live Update won't install on Win11 system
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2022, 01:36:10 am »
Maybe a sticky that is titled "Universal Installer for those having issues updating" might be more informative for folks like myself. My searches did point me toward deactivating the firewall and antivirus but still, I had no success.

This was the thread, the suggestion to use the new Uninversal Installer was in the first reply:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,25999.msg170573.html#msg170573

it was named after the most common error message in the sim when the software doesn't start, but in your case, considering it (following your report) it downloaded the whole program, it seems your installation was entirely missing, not just the common case of the message about the program not starting, which indicate the product IS at least installed.

Nobody reported something like this, that's why the stick is not named the way it might be easier for you to find it.