GSX2 gate position accuracy

[Pete Dowson]

This is a request for the Gate position checking in GSX2 to be made a bit more lenient.

I have a number of saved scenarios with, theoretically, my aircraft positioned correctly at a chosen gate. They've either been positioned by taxiing to them or, more often, by selecting the gate in the P3D5 menu. But either way I am finding GSX2 simply will not operate the jetways or steps unless i first ask it to reposition at the current gate!

I've done this whilst watching from outside, and it is hard to see it move, it is so close. Maybe 6 inches to the left or right of the line and maybe the same back and forth.

Until this is done, nothing happens. I can go through the four menus needed to operate the jetway (main menu - select operator - select jetway - confirm jetway ... why so many???) only to have nothing then happen. No message saying it can't be done. just nothing. At least if my position is further out there's a different menu (choose gate etc), but the way it is when you are close is rather annoying -- 4 menus to get nothing to happen, then, when it dawns on me why, the two to reposition -- then three of the 4 again (the operator seems to remain selected).

So, these are my pleas:  (a) relax a little the gate positioning checks, and (b) see if the selection of jetway operation can't be shortened a trifle. There seems at least one menu too many.

Thanks
Pete

[virtuali]

There are two very different issues here:

- The check GSX does to see if you are inside or outside of a gate. The result of this check would be GSX presenting the *services* menu ( if you are in a gate ) or the *parking selection* menu ( if you are outside ). This check is made by comparing the airplane position against the parking center, and I think the tolerance it's like 50 meters so, in order for GSX to be confused, you should be very distant from the correct position.

- The check GSX does to operate the jetway. This is far more sensitive and, it simply cannot be fixed by "relaxing" something. A jetway can either solve or not, based on so many factors like the airplane position, the gate position, the jetway position, the jetway model, the jetway initial heading and ( most important ) the GSX "STOP" position, which can be customized with the parking customization editor to be independent from the Parking center position, augmenting what is normally not possible with "just" data from the AFCAD. To do this check, GSX first ASK SODE, which will internally try to solve the jetway without actually moving it, and if SODE reports that jetway for any of the aforementioned reasons won't work, GSX will not include it in the jetway selection menu.

What the reposition airplane function does, is to park automatically, based on the information available so, if you have "just" the AFCAD, it will park the airplane with its reference point in the center of the parking as specified by the AFCAD. If you move the parking position with the GSX customization page, this will override the data in the AFCAD, so the reposition will use the center from the GSX custom profile. If you also add a custom Stop position, which you tuned by using the "Test Jetway with SODE" function, ( Num Pad 5 while editing a jetway, which will make a sound if the jetways solved ), the reposition will use the Stop position instead, which work by setting the airplane in a way the PREFERRED EXIT will always be in the same place regardless of the airplane, resulting in different front Gear position on ground, which fairly close matches reality.

[Pete Dowson]

- The check GSX does to see if you are inside or outside of a gate. The result of this check would be GSX presenting the *services* menu ( if you are in a gate ) or the *parking selection* menu ( if you are outside ). This check is made by comparing the airplane position against the parking center, and I think the tolerance it's like 50 meters so, in order for GSX to be confused, you should be very distant from the correct position.

Hmm. Definitely not that check then.

- The check GSX does to operate the jetway. This is far more sensitive and, it simply cannot be fixed by "relaxing" something. A jetway can either solve or not, based on so many factors like the airplane position, the gate position, the jetway position, the jetway model, the jetway initial heading and ( most important ) the GSX "STOP" position, which can be customized with the parking customization editor to be independent from the Parking center position, augmenting what is normally not possible with "just" data from the AFCAD. To do this check, GSX first ASK SODE, which will internally try to solve the jetway without actually moving it, and if SODE reports that jetway for any of the aforementioned reasons won't work, GSX will not include it in the jetway selection menu.

What the reposition airplane function does, is to park automatically, based on the information available so, if you have "just" the AFCAD, it will park the airplane with its reference point in the center of the parking as specified by the AFCAD. If you move the parking position with the GSX customization page, this will override the data in the AFCAD, so the reposition will use the center from the GSX custom profile. If you also add a custom Stop position, which you tuned by using the "Test Jetway with SODE" function, ( Num Pad 5 while editing a jetway, which will make a sound if the jetways solved ), the reposition will use the Stop position instead, which work by setting the airplane in a way the PREFERRED EXIT will always be in the same place regardless of the airplane, resulting in different front Gear position on ground, which fairly close matches reality.

I've never changed anything to do with customisation.  Previously i've used the SODE jetway installed by the UK2000 EGCC scenery, and never had a problem. i've been gradually updating to use the GSX2 glass ones using the files packaged by Cartanya. That works well, but only after using the reposition at this gate option.

I don't know why the position has changed -- and it is only a small distance -- but the more annoying thing is that there's no notification from GSX2 as to what is the problem. Simply nothing happens. Even if you can't, won't or shouldn't make the positioning a little more tolerant, surely some sort of message should appear to explain why the jetway won't position?

Regards
Pete

[virtuali]

That works well, but only after using the reposition at this gate option.

The reposition option simply places the airplane in the "perfect" position for that parking/airplane combination, according to the information available to GSX, which is the AFCAD + the GSX custom profile, which can specify a different Stop position than the default AFCAD.

Do you see the airplane moving when you reposition at the gate ? If yes, it means GSX is working as expected and you just parked outside a range where that particular jetway, at that particular airport, in that specific position, with that particular airplane, could solve. GSX doesn't try to solve or making any calculations on its own about this, it just *asks SODE*, which can simulate the IK calculation without animating the jetway, and reports failure or success to GSX.

How much slack you have, from the "perfect" parking position after a reposition, compared your actual position after parking manually, depends on the jetway model chosen and its placement. There are so many different jetway models available in GSX, in many different sizes, which is basically impossible not be able to find one that could solve on a specific parking even when a very reasonable amount of tolerance in parking accuracy but again, it all depends by the GSX customization.

but the more annoying thing is that there's no notification from GSX2 as to what is the problem. Simply nothing happens. Even if you can't, won't or shouldn't make the positioning a little more tolerant, surely some sort of message should appear to explain why the jetway won't position?

Of course there are several messages from GSX if a jetway doesn't work for any reason.

- If the jetway is a GSX jetway, but GSX Level 2 is not activated (and you are not on an FSDT airport, where you can use GSX jetways without a registration), it will say:

"GSX Level 2 not activated, jetways won't move"

- If SODE cannot solve the jetway, it will say:

"No jetway can operate at this position"

- If the parking doesn't have a GSX/SODE jetway or plain SODE jetway, it say:

"No SODE jetway docked. You will not see passengers visually"

- If SODE is not installed, or it couldn't communicate with GSX, or it crashed, it will say:

"SODE Connection lost"

[Pete Dowson]

Do you see the airplane moving when you reposition at the gate ? If yes, it means GSX is working as expected and you just parked outside a range where that particular jetway, at that particular airport, in that specific position, with that particular airplane, could solve. GSX doesn't try to solve or making any calculations on its own about this, it just *asks SODE*, which can simulate the IK calculation without animating the jetway, and reports failure or success to GSX.

How much slack you have, from the "perfect" parking position after a reposition, compared your actual position after parking manually, depends on the jetway model chosen and its placement. There are so many different jetway models available in GSX, in many different sizes, which is basically impossible not be able to find one that could solve on a specific parking even when a very reasonable amount of tolerance in parking accuracy but again, it all depends by the GSX customization.

Ok -- so the fact that it was a problem this time was because I changed the Jetway INI file to one provided in the Cartanya set. I'll need to load up each of my saved parked scenarios and do the reposition and save for each.

Of course there are several messages from GSX if a jetway doesn't work for any reason.

- If SODE cannot solve the jetway, it will say:

"No jetway can operate at this position"

So that is what I should have seen, but didn't. I logged all the SimConnect Texts received via the intercept method, and here are the ones which occurred:

   817860  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 4 broadcast
   868344  7248 ### TEXT: 512 (Menu) From SimC, Duration 30.00, Flags 00000000, Len=276
   868344  7248      GSX - Activate ground services
   868344  7248      Activate ground services
   868344  7248      Request deboarding
   868360  7248      Request catering service
   868360  7248      Request refueling
   868360  7248      Request boarding
   868360  7248      Prepare for push-back and departure
   868360  7248      Operate jetway(s)
   868360  7248      Operate stairs
   868360  7248      Additional Services
   868360  7248      Customize this parking position
   868360  7248      Reposition aircraft
   868360  7248 Delaying notification of message type 2
   868360  7248 Sending delayed notification of message type 2
   868360  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 broadcast
   873828  7248 ### TEXT_DESTROY: 512 (Menu) Result: 5, Flags 00000000
   873828  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 clear broadcast
   874500  7248 ### TEXT: 512 (Menu) From SimC, Duration 10.00, Flags 00000000, Len=106
   874500  7248      Select operator at Gate 42
   874500  7248      Select handling operator
   874500  7248      Menzies  [GSX default choice]
   874500  7248      Swissport International
   874500  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 broadcast
   881578  7248 ### TEXT_DESTROY: 512 (Menu) Result: 0, Flags 00000000
   881578  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 clear broadcast
   881891  7248 ### TEXT: 257 (Static) From SimC, Duration 6.00, Flags 00000000, Len=26
   881891  7248
[GSX] Handling by Menzies
   881891  7248 Delaying notification of message type 1
   881891  7248 Sending delayed notification of message type 1
   881891  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 1 broadcast
   882156  7248 ### TEXT: 512 (Menu) From SimC, Duration 30.00, Flags 00000000, Len=96
   882156  7248      GSX - Jetways Service
   882156  7248      Select jetways
   882156  7248      [ ] GSX2 Jetway to Fwd Pax (1L)
   882156  7248      [Don't select any jetway]
   882156  7248 Delaying notification of message type 2
   882156  7248 Sending delayed notification of message type 2
   882156  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 broadcast
   887906  7248 ### TEXT_DESTROY: 257 (Static) Result: 65540, Flags 00000000
   887906  7248 Delaying notification of message type 1
   887906  7248 Sending delayed notification of message type 1
   887906  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 1 clear broadcast
   888266  7248 ### TEXT_DESTROY: 512 (Menu) Result: 0, Flags 00000000
   888266  7248 Delaying notification of message type 2
   888266  7248 ### TEXT: 512 (Menu) From SimC, Duration 30.00, Flags 00000000, Len=98
   888266  7248      GSX - Jetways Service
   888266  7248      Select jetways
   888266  7248      [•] GSX2 Jetway ---------> Fwd Pax (1L)
   888266  7248      [Confirm selection]
   888266  7248 Delaying notification of message type 2
   888313  7248 Sending delayed notification of message type 2
   888313  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 broadcast
   894031  7248 ### TEXT_DESTROY: 512 (Menu) Result: 0, Flags 00000000
   894031  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 clear broadcast
   894031  7248 ### TEXT: 512 (Menu) From SimC, Duration 30.00, Flags 00000000, Len=96
   894031  7248      GSX - Jetways Service
   894031  7248      Select jetways
   894031  7248      [ ] GSX2 Jetway to Fwd Pax (1L)
   894031  7248      [Don't select any jetway]
   894031  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 broadcast
   898703  7248 ### TEXT_DESTROY: 512 (Menu) Result: 1, Flags 00000000
   898703  7248 ***DISP*** Text/menu type 2 clear broadcast

I had selected the appropriate option each time. It did seem to be rather long-winded (5 menus to answer including the main one).

But at this point after selecting the FSX2 Jetway, I waited a couple of minutes (the number on the left is millisecs, the one next to it is the thread ID of the message logger) to see if anything would happen, and nothing did, so I started the process again, here:

  1023594  7248 ### TEXT: 512 (Menu) From SimC, Duration 30.00, Flags 00000000, Len=276
  1023594  7248      GSX - Activate ground services

etc. Same result (except didn't need to chose handler again) until I did the reposition at this gate and went through the process again.

Regards
Pete

[virtuali]

Please use SODE own Log, which includes lot of more information in a clearer way, including data about the communication with GSX with its own API.

[Pete Dowson]

Please use SODE own Log, which includes lot of more information in a clearer way, including data about the communication with GSX with its own API.

It may well do, and it may tell you what is going wrong, but I am simply recording the messages and menus which GSX actually shows on screen. SODE can't do that, it can only perhaps tell you what perhaps should have been shown (and with luck why it wasn't). If so then I can see that should be a help for you in resolving it.

So, I'll try to remember to grab it next time I find my aircraft parked a few inches off the strict accuracy required by the Jetway (which I thought was GSX2 not SODE -- it's in the GSX folder) and get no response, not even an error pointing out the inaccuracy.

Pete

[virtuali]

So, I'll try to remember to grab it next time I find my aircraft parked a few inches off the strict accuracy required by the Jetway (which I thought was GSX2 not SODE -- it's in the GSX folder) and get no response, not even an error pointing out the inaccuracy.

I can only repeat and confirm that, unless you disabled the Info text in the sim:

- If the jetway is a GSX jetway, but GSX Level 2 is not activated (and you are not on an FSDT airport, where you can use GSX jetways without a registration), it will say:

"GSX Level 2 not activated, jetways won't move"

- If SODE cannot solve the jetway, it will say:

"No jetway can operate at this position"

- If the parking doesn't have a GSX/SODE jetway or plain SODE jetway, it say:

"No SODE jetway docked. You will not see passengers visually"

- If SODE is not installed, or it couldn't communicate with GSX, or it crashed, it will say:

"SODE Connection lost"


Also, I don't know why you keep mentioning a supposedly "strict" accuracy required. As I've said, there's no such thing as a jetway "tolerance" anywhere in the whole GSX. The jetways work with an IK system so, they either solve or they don't.

GSX doesn't try to solve anything on its own. It simply asks SODE if jetways solve and on which door, and SODE will reply indicating which jetways ( if any ) solve on which doors, so GSX will either show the jetway menu, or it will show one of the aforementioned error messages.

As with any IK system, there's no such thing as "tolerance", something will either solve, or it will not but again, without knowing the PRECISE, EXACT situation, which means:

- your airplane door configuration

- your actual position on ground when you asked for the jetways

- the precise, exact, kind of jetway it was used on that specific parking spot

Without all this data, it's impossible to say if the jetway didn't solve by a small or large amount. Most of GSX jetways have a very high working range, but this assuming the airplane doors are configured precisely, the jetway has been chosen correctly for the parking spot, and the stop position has been set in a place where that jetway could conceivably work with some margin.

[Pete Dowson]

I can only repeat and confirm that, unless you disabled the Info text in the sim:

So, you list no message for a GSX2 jetway (yes, with GSX2 active) but one which won't dock because I'm parked slightly off? That's what I'm asking for -- a message, not just leaving one waiting with nothing happening.

Pete

[virtuali]

So, you list no message for a GSX2 jetway (yes, with GSX2 active) but one which won't dock because I'm parked slightly off?

That's precisely the case I listed here:

- If SODE cannot solve the jetway, it will say: "No jetway can operate at this position"

This covers all cases of a jetway not docking because of your position, it doesn't matter at all how MUCH you were off, there's no concept anywhere in GSX about handling *how much* off you are. SODE won't tell GSX how much off you are as if GSX could possibly do some kind of decision and let auto-magically operate the jetway ( GSX doesn't operate the jetway, SODE does ).

It's only a yes/no, which is the only thing possible with an IK solver and, since it will be SODE that would actually move the jetway, using exactly the same calculations it used to report the result of the test to GSX, it won't be very useful for GSX knowing how much off you are, considering it's SODE that will have to animate the jetway anyway.

It's not as if GSX could possibly do anything to solve something that won't solve. Or, more precisely, that might solve, but couldn't because of the jetway mechanical constraints, which are known to SODE, and are there to prevent things like jetways broken in pieces, which sometimes happens using default jetway, because the solving systems are less precise and likely more "tolerant" ( from an IK point of view ).

The default jetway is more tolerant, resulting in visible bugs, because there's only ONE jetway model, so they tried to make it work everywhere. GSX has more than 80 different models to choose from, which makes impossible not being able to find one that doesn't adapt to a certain parking/airplane/stop position combination.

[Pete Dowson]

Ah, so a GSX2 jetway, which is what I changed to from the SODE ones from UK2000, is also a SODE jetway even though stored in GSX folders? Understood.

But it still doesn't explain why I don't see that message. I see others and the sequence of up to 4 menus, but not that message. consistently too. Weird. That's my problem -- I am just left waiting, wondering why nothing happens.

Pete

[virtuali]

Ah, so a GSX2 jetway, which is what I changed to from the SODE ones from UK2000, is also a SODE jetway even though stored in GSX folders? Understood.

Yes, they both SODE, the only difference is that "plain" SODE jetways are created and animated by SODE, starting from an XML file in the SODE folder, while GSX/SODE jetways are created by GSX, and solved/animated by SODE.

But it still doesn't explain why I don't see that message. I see others and the sequence of up to 4 menus, but not that message. consistently too. Weird. That's my problem -- I am just left waiting, wondering why nothing happens.

This is strange indeed, do you see other messages from GSX in the top green message bar ?

[Pete Dowson]

This is strange indeed, do you see other messages from GSX in the top green message bar ?

Yes: at least the usual reminder to set parking brake to get GSX services (I'm always forgetting that when starting from cold & dark), and the "Handling by Menzies" as listed in my log earlier.

Anyway, I'll try again next week. Too busy on other stuff this weekend.

Pete