Why does updater install PBR when Only installed for FSX ?

[Sparkrite]

Hi,
First post and I did have a look to see if this has been answered before.
Couldn't find a definitive answer, but maybe I missed it, has been know to happen.

Anyway, I have both FSX and P3dV4.5 installed and initially had GSX installed for both sims ( on D: drive outside of sims).
However I just wanted it running in FSX so I used the CP entry to UNinstall it and then made sure that all 'Virtuali'
directories on C: were also deleted.

I then download the 32bit installer and ran it and it does its business and installs GSX for FSX, all good so far.
But, when the updater runs, not only does it install Couatl64 but also downloads in or around 3Gb of PBR textures
which obviously will NEVER be used in FSX.
Maybe, I'm overlooking something, somewhere, but surely this comparatively large download of superfluous data should not be happening
when GSX is installed only for FSX ?

TIA.  

[virtuali]

The updater updates the PBR objects because:

- You still have P3D4 installed

AND

- You still have the Simobjects_PBR folder in your Addon Manager folder. This because when you uninstalled GSX from P3D4, you never replied YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?", which would have removed the whole Addon Manager folder. Normally, the folder is not removed automatically, for the following reasons:

- The Simobjects_PBR might contain objects required by some of our sceneries

- The Simobjects_PBR was updated with the Live Updater with objects/files which weren't present when you originally installed. The Uninstaller will only remove things that were installed by its own related installed, not things that were added by other means, for the precise reason files added by other means might be required by the "thing" that placed them there, including your own eventual object customizations, the installer cannot possibly know, since it was created by the *installer*, with a list of files *that* installer installed.

That's the reason of the question ""Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?", because the uninstaller cannot uninstall anything other than it has installed, not things that has been added there by other means.

So, on the next reinstall, the updater saw you had an "incomplete" Simobject_PBR folder ( the things the uninstaller couldn't remove ), it saw you STILL have P3D4 installed, so it basically repaired your P3D4 installation.

I hope this is answer is definitive enough for you.

[Sparkrite]

The updater updates the PBR objects because:

- You still have P3D4 installed

Yes, I do.

- You still have the Simobjects_PBR folder in your Addon Manager folder. This because when you uninstalled GSX from P3D4, you never replied YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?", which would have removed the whole Addon Manager folder. Normally, the folder is not removed automatically, for the following reasons:

I did reply 'Yes' to that question and not relying fully on just the UNinstaller, I also made sure that the 'Addon Manager' folder was totally deleted along with, as I already stated, the 'Virtuali' folders.
So, NO, the 'Simobjects_PBR' folder did not exist when I used the 32bit installer for FSX.

So, on the next reinstall, the updater saw you had an "incomplete" Simobject_PBR folder ( the things the uninstaller couldn't remove ), it saw you STILL have P3D4 installed, so it basically repaired your P3D4 installation.

No it did not 'see' anything of the sort. I had no "incomplete" or indeed any 'Simobject_PBR' directory present when I invoked the 32bit Installer. In fact as the updater ran
I could see the 'Addon Manager' folder populate and observed the updater setup the Simobject_PBR directory.

Yes I still have P3D4 installed but do not want GSX working with it, that is the crux of what I'm saying, and do not see why a 32bit installer should end up running an updater which
downloads 64bit textures.

I hope this is answer is definitive enough for you.

Hardly, and quite frankly, I don't appreciate the tone.
You, in other replies have stated  'that bandwidth costs money' and indeed it does, so here am I, a customer, bringing to your attention what I
see as unnecessary waste of bandwidth, which will save FSDT money and I'm told that it's all my fault.
No 'Thank you for your inquiry but maybe you forgot to do this or that', instead you categorically state what I know to be incorrect re. my total deletion of the 'Addon Manager' directory.

Could a simple menu of sorts ie. Press 1 to update FSX or 2 to update P3D, not be employed within the updater, if you want to keep just a single updater, which BTW I see the advantage of ?

Thank you for your time.
Regards,
Sparkrite.

[virtuali]

I did reply 'Yes' to that question and not relying fully on just the UNinstaller, I also made sure that the 'Addon Manager' folder was totally deleted along with, as I already stated, the 'Virtuali' folders.

You haven't said that, so I couldn't possibly know that.

And yes, I haven't thought of another usage case in which the PBR objects are installed even if you don't have their folder, and it's for users that would had a fairly old GSX install, one which was made BEFORE we released the PBR update, and they have P3D4 installed, but with the old objects so, the only way to get them automatically the new objects, is to install the PBR objects regardless if the folder is there or not.

Yes, they could download a new full installer, but we would have to let them know in some way there was a new installer, so the updater always installs the best version of the objects, as long as P3D4 is installed.

Yes, we could probably add an additional check if GSX is enabled in the add-on.cfg file.

[Sparkrite]

Thank you for your reply.

Ok, just so that we are totally clear on this, am I correct with the following:-

Contrary to your first reply, we have now established that regardless of whether the 'Simobjects_PBR' folder is present or not
and even though no other FSDT product exists on the computer except GSX being used by FSX, once P3DV4 is present on the computer
the updater will download and install approximately 3GB of PBR textures along with Couatl64.

And this will occur because there is no check done to ascertain if GSX is even installed for P3DV4 ?
If this is indeed the case, ie. just the presence of P3DV4 is enough to trigger the relatively large download, then surely
you must agree that this is a huge waste of bandwidth, time and ultimately money.

I find it incredible that the end user has to download 3GB of data and then every time he runs the updater will
also update this totally unused and superfluous data.
I have a couple of cross platform aircraft and some of the use a common updater but offer the choice of which aircraft
I wish to update.

If i am correct with what I have outlined above, and going by your last reply, I suspect I may well be, then I would hope
that this situation would be addressed.

Surely it can't be too difficult to offer something like:-

What would you like to update ?

Press 1 for FSX.
Press 2 for P3D
Press 3 for Both
Press 4 to Exit.

And save everybody, not least FSDT both time and money.

Thank you,
Regards,
Sparkrite.

[virtuali]

I find it incredible that the end user has to download 3GB of data and then every time he runs the updater will
also update this totally unused and superfluous data.

Well, I find more incredible that a GSX owner that has both FSX and P3D4 installer, would want to install GSX only FSX, especially considering how dramatically better is in P3D4. That's probably why nobody ever noticed this, not many use that unusual configuration.

But yes, as I've said, I guess we could save some bandwidth by checking not just if the sim is installed, but if GSX is active in the add-on.cfg.

[Sparkrite]

Thank you for your reply.

Well, I find more incredible that a GSX owner that has both FSX and P3D4 installer, would want to install GSX only FSX, especially considering how dramatically better is in P3D4.

I have avoided personalizing my comments throughout, and I expected the same courtesy would be extended to me, but alas not.  

It is my computer and my personal choice how I configure it. But purely out of courtesy/politeness to you I will tell you why I UNinstalled it from P3DV4.
It is because of the stuttering that occurred when descending below FL100 approaching large airports. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not going to argue,
but when I remove GSX  the stuttering is removed along with it. This stuttering does not present in FSX.

That's probably why nobody ever noticed this, not many use that unusual configuration.

You have no idea whether nobody noticed it or indeed how many have this 'unusual' configuration, as you term it.
The fact that it has not been brought to your attention here, before I did, is absolutely no indication of that whatsoever.
You, yourself have said in other posts that only a very small amount of users come to forums to seek help/advice/tips etc..

If I'm absolutely honest with you, I'm somewhat sorry I did now.

But yes, as I've said, I guess we could save some bandwidth by checking not just if the sim is installed, but if GSX is active in the add-on.cfg.

To be fair, I suppose, at least, you conceded the above.

Thank you for your time,
Regards,
Sparkrite.

[virtuali]

I have avoided personalizing my comments throughout, and I expected the same courtesy would be extended to me, but alas not.

That comment didn't had any relationship to you. It was to explain the design rationale of always downloading if P3D4 is installed, which was decided long before your post so, it doesn't have anything to do with you, it was just a reasoning made assuming what a "generic" user would likely do. Or what MOST users would do, and how much those with your unusual configuration would eventually cost us in bandwidth.

It is because of the stuttering that occurred when descending below FL100 approaching large airports. Rightly or wrongly, I'm not going to argue,
but when I remove GSX  the stuttering is removed along with it. This stuttering does not present in FSX.

Fact it's not present in GSX, should have been proof enough the problem is NOT caused by GSX, because the code is obviously the same in both simulators ( GSX is a Python program that doesn't really care much which simulator it runs under ).

The difference might be:

- different ways the CPU schedules threads between FSX and P3D4, possibly requiring different AffinityMasks settings, or no settings at all.

- different set of other add-ons installed between the two.

And, just to be sure, since when you tried GSX in P3D4 ? We recently released a 64 bit version, using the native P3D Simconnect client, so I cannot imagine how it could possibly run worse than FSX, on a 64 bit OS.