Can not reload airports into P3Dv4.2

[ravemtech]

Hi,

I am currently running P3Dv4.2 and cannot update to v4.5 for a variety of reasons.

I have recently purchased Louisville and Zurich, and have had to reload Geneva.  However all three airports on trying to install say l have to have a minimum of P3Dv4.4 when l try to load them.

I have looked through the FSDT webpage and specifications for each of the airports and there is nothing that says minimum P3Dv4.4 being required, except for the latest Chicago and Basel. I also looked on the Simmarket website where l purchased the three airports and there is also nothing about requiring v4.4, but it does state that all three airports are compatible with all versions of P3D, and nothing about only P3Dv4.4 and above.

Is there an issue with the latest installer program that is causing this issue? If so, there an older version of the installer to allow the airports to be installed on v4.2, or am l doing something wrong. Any help greatly appreciated.

Anthony

[virtuali]

We only support the latest version of Prepar3D, meaning 2.5 in P3D 2, 3.4 in P3D4 and 4.4 in P3D4, which is not the latest version, but we might move supporting only 4.5+ later on.

We don't make old installers available, and even if we did, they would't work anyway, since old installers worked on Esellerate, which closed last July and removed all its activation servers at the end of September. We moved all the existing serial numbers and customers email to the new activation server, but this required a software update to support the new system, so even if you had an old installer, it won't activate anymore, since Esellerate has closed.

So yes, you don't have any other choice than updating P3D to at least version 4.4, even if we suggest using 4.5 HF2, which is the latest version as of today.

It would be helpful if you could explain why you think you cannot update, there are so many misconceptions spread around about updating, which are not usually true ( lots of users assume they would have to reinstall everything, which is not usually the case ), so maybe we could help upgrading.

We just updated all our product description now, because we wanted to wait the official end of support for Windows 7, which just happened. Descriptions on Simmarket has been updated too, will appear in a short while.

[ravemtech]

I tried a client only update to go from P3D to 4.4 and 4.5 but it caused severe stutters and crashed the computer after about 10 minutes flying. I use Prosim and to do a full reinstall of P3D is simply far too much work when v4.2 is running perfectly.  Sometimes it’s better to leave good enough alone.

Thank you for your explanation re the airports requiring the latest version of P3D. Sadly however, this is clearly not what the product description states.  Simmarket advertises all versions of P3D, nothing about it requiring v4.4 as a minimum.  And your website also failed to state in the system requirements that it requires v4.4 minimum accept on a couple of the new products. Had l known this, l would not have uninstalled Geneva, and would not have purchased Louisville or Zurich.  I purchased your products in good faith based on the product advertising, spent my money, and now find out find after the purchase that I cannot use the products and there is no solution other than upgrading which is not an option. Sorry to say but this is really quite unfair and wrong.

Anthony

[virtuali]

I tried a client only update to go from P3D to 4.4 and 4.5 but it caused severe stutters and crashed the computer after about 10 minutes flying. I use Prosim and to do a full reinstall of P3D is simply far too much work when v4.2 is running perfectly.  Sometimes it’s better to leave good enough alone.

That's the problem. When going from an old version like 4.2, to one that has PBR, updating the Client only won't work. You should at least update the Content too, and this is valid for both going from 4.2 to 4.4 *and* going from 4.4 to 4.5.

For a safer update, always download both the Client and the Content, and install both.

I use an even safer method, which is:

- Uninstall the whole program.

- Download the latest FULL installer ( Prepar3D 4.5 HF2 )

- Install the the FULL installer

Opposite that what many thinks, this will NOT require reinstalling any add-ons, except those that modified default scenery files in the simulator own folder, which is a bad practice anyway ( it's possible to replace stock files even from another folder ), but if an add-on only added files, or replaced them in the proper way, it won't have to be reinstalled.

Thank you for your explanation re the airports requiring the latest version of P3D. Sadly however, this is clearly not what the product description states.  Simmarket advertises all versions of P3D, nothing about it requiring v4.4 as a minimum. And your website also failed to state in the system requirements that it requires v4.4 minimum accept on a couple of the new products.

They surely do, try to hit the F5 refresh key, otherwise you might look at an old copy of the web page, cached by your browser.

Had l known this, l would not have uninstalled Geneva, and would not have purchased Louisville or Zurich.  I purchased your products in good faith based on the product advertising, spent my money, and now find out find after the purchase that I cannot use the products and there is no solution other than upgrading which is not an option. Sorry to say but this is really quite unfair and wrong.

You might have had a point, if we didn't offered a TRIAL version that you are supposed to install BEFORE purchase. Had you done that, it would have been obvious you could not install in anything lower than P3D 4.4.

There are many other developers not supporting anything lower than 4.4, for example PMDG so, if you don't want to update *now*, you will do it anyway.

It's not as if we don't want to support older version for fun: we USE some features of the P3D4 SDK that weren't simply there in older versions, like the new Camera API or the Render To Texture API, which was unreliable in previous versions, or the new mouse interface, which makes the GSX editor and custom Pushback so much easier to use.

And of course, the biggest of all it's PBR, we remade most of the GSX models and all jetways in PBR, and they look so much better, and PBR is supported only starting with 4.4, the difference is so big, that nobody in his right mind would still want to use the old FSX models in P3D4, just to stay with older version.

[ravemtech]

Thank you for your reply.

I had trialled the two airports last year along with 13 other FSDreamTeam products with no issues at all on my system with v4.2. These two most recent purchases were however at the bottom of my priority of airport purchases. I did however purchase the other 13 trialled airports from FSDreamTeam and without any issues.  Simmarket and your records will be able to confirm these other 13 purchases.  As nothing on the advertising in Simmarket or on your website had changed regarding system or installation requirements prior to the weekend, l made the purchases in good faith based on FSDreamTeam and Simmarket website product specification requirements advertised, as the trials of both airports had previously worked without issue on my system which has not changed. So l have done what you stated l needed to do, ie trial the products on my system.

You are correct about the new system requirements now showing on both websites. Following my raising the Ticket and writing a new Topic on the forum highlighting the issue, Simmarket and FSDreamTeam has been quick to correct the error in the system requirements of FSDreamTeam products over the weekend.  l congratulate you on such a rapid response once you were made aware of the advertising error.  But as you are also aware, this correction is well after my purchase of the last two airports.  And had either FSDreamTeam or Simmarket stated prior to the weekend the new requirements of the installation, l also would not have uninstalled and tried to reinstall Geneva which had a small glitch following installation of Prealsoft Geneva, which l though a reload of Geneva would resolve. I just would have put up with the issue.

P3Dv4.4 update is not an option for me. Sadly, based on the forum reports, and speaking directly with others who have updated esp those with ProSim737, it would require reinstalling many of my add-ons, and take a significant amount of time to get my system back to its current state of operation. Even Melbourne737 who is local and has the same system as mine with ProSim737 described it on his Facebook page as time consuming, tedious and exhausting, and something he would not want to do again.  And PBR would overstretch my system so the suggestion that l am “not in my right mind” for not wanting to update to PBR is extremely unfair. There are many of us using Prosim737 with projector systems not updating from 4.1/4.2/4.3 due to the amount of work involved and the system requirements to run PBR. And if you are not aware, many companies still strongly support all versions of  P3Dv4 with their old and many of their new products including Orbx, JustSim, Drzeweiki, Digital Designs, Flightbeam, UK2000 to name just a few of the many.

Simmarket has agreed to credit my account for the two airports if they receive an email from FSDreamTeam. Based on my strong support of FSDreamTeam with 13 previous product purchases, I hope you be fair and will email Simmarket and give them permission to recredit my account for these two latest airport purchases (Louisville & Zurich) as well as Geneva that l can no longer use.

Regards
Anthony

 

[Captain Kevin]

I don't know anything about the Prosim 737, but I can tell you off hand that I have been able to update from 4.2 to 4.4, and then from 4.4 to 4.5 without having to re-install any of my add-ons, and that was just from updating both the client and content. As far as companies still supporting all versions of P3D V4, that ultimately depends on what their add-ons entail. PMDG's new 737 NGXu along with their 747 both require 4.4 or higher because of PBR, and their 777 is about to go the same route. LatinVFR's new Madrid and Miami sceneries also both require 4.4 or higher because they incorporated PBR in their new sceneries. FlyTampa doesn't state this explicitly, but their Las Vegas scenery most certainly requires 4.4 or higher because PBR is incorporated in that scenery.

[virtuali]

As nothing on the advertising in Simmarket or on your website had changed regarding system or installation requirements prior to the weekend, l made the purchases in good faith based on FSDreamTeam and Simmarket website product specification requirements advertised, as the trials of both airports had previously worked without issue on my system which has not changed. So l have done what you stated l needed to do, ie trial the products on my system.

This is just wrong. We haven't changed the INSTALL requirements "this weekend". We changed the website *description* for requirements only, but the INSTALLER required P3D 4.4 long before that. We changed it sometime in July 2019, see here for proof:

July 2019:
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,21470.msg146008.html#msg146008
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,21567.msg146530.html#msg146530
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,21137.msg144921.html#msg144921

Following my raising the Ticket and writing a new Topic on the forum highlighting the issue, Simmarket and FSDreamTeam has been quick to correct the error in the system requirements of FSDreamTeam products over the weekend.  l congratulate you on such a rapid response once you were made aware of the advertising error.  But as you are also aware, this correction is well after my purchase of the last two airports.  

Wrong again, we changed it because we had to remove Windows 7 from the supported OS, so we waited the day of the official end-of-life for it, to update all descriptions, your support request didn't had anything to do with this, it was just a coincidence you bought exactly at the same time we were updating the descriptions for THAT reason.

Not that this is makes any difference, since as I've said, the TRIAL version doesn't install in P3D 4.2 since LAST YEAR.

P3Dv4.4 update is not an option for me. Sadly, based on the forum reports, and speaking directly with others who have updated esp those with ProSim737, it would require reinstalling many of my add-ons, and take a significant amount of time to get my system back to its current state of operation. Even Melbourne737 who is local and has the same system as mine with ProSim737 described it on his Facebook page as time consuming, tedious and exhausting, and something he would not want to do again.

You are based what you "read on forums". I'm telling you this is not the case so, what evidence you have that what you are reading on *this* forum is any less correct that what you read elsewhere ? That you have to reinstall everything, only to update from 4.2 to 4.5, is simply NOT true.

 And PBR would overstretch my system so the suggestion that l am “not in my right mind” for not wanting to update to PBR is extremely unfair.

Who told you PBR is surely slower that Legacy ? We don't have any evidence of that.

There are many of us using Prosim737 with projector systems not updating from 4.1/4.2/4.3 due to the amount of work involved and the system requirements to run PBR. And if you are not aware, many companies still strongly support all versions of  P3Dv4 with their old and many of their new products including Orbx, JustSim, Drzeweiki, Digital Designs, Flightbeam, UK2000 to name just a few of the many.

Wrong comparison. Simple sceneries which didn't use PBR could possibly be left as they were, but since almost all our sceneries use and requires GSX to work, they will inherit GSX software requirements, and GSX is now almost entirely PBR, and use the native P3D 4.4 SDK so, there's no way to go back to the old versions, once GSX is updated.

And, in addition to that, we had to update the software anyway to support the new activation system, because of the Esellerate closure, and there's no way we would be able to retrofit the old version of the software to support the new activation JUST to support an older P3D.

And, the only version of P3D V2 supported is 2.5, and the only version of P3D3 supported is 3.4, we are even being more flexible, since we support 4.4 and 4.5, but that won't last very long, since there *are* extra features in the 4.5 SDK we might need.

Simmarket has agreed to credit my account for the two airports if they receive an email from FSDreamTeam. Based on my strong support of FSDreamTeam with 13 previous product purchases, I hope you be fair and will email Simmarket and give them permission to recredit my account for these two latest airport purchases (Louisville & Zurich) as well as Geneva that l can no longer use.

No, of course we won't agree to this, because if you really tried the Trial, it would be obvious you couldn't install under 4.2, so you could choose not to purchase. As I've said, the Trial cannot install in anything lower than 4.4 and it has been like this for months.

But that's beside the point, the main this here is that you SHOULD update, and it's just wrong not wanting to, based on inaccurate/outdated information you might have.

As I've said, updating usually requires to update BOTH the Client and the Content, even if I always update using the full installer, and never had to reinstall any add-on. If you have a particular add-on that would force you to reinstall it when you update the simulator, you should complain to THAT developer that is forcing you and it's preventing to get all the latest fixes from Lockheed Martin which, going from 4.2 to 4.5 HF2 were A LOT.

[virtuali]

The thread is now locked, because some of you started to throw insults, which is obviously not acceptable.

@ravemtech, you said you bought many FSDT products, but I couldn't find any orders registered to your email, neither on our site, nor on Simmarket. Maybe you used a different email, so please contact support by email or PM about your refund request.