Pushback Direction BEFORE Parking Brake Release

[Terblanche]

Could we please have the option back where we select the direction of the pushback BEFORE we release the parking brakes ...? The logic of selecting the direction AFTER the parking brake is released simply doesn't make sense because I believe the ground crew would very much like to know the pushback procedure BEFORE you release the parking brakes.

Thanks.

[airlinetycoon]

+1

[Wolkenschreck]

The current option to select the direction after brakes are released is a highly welcomed improvement for people who fly on Vatsim or IVAO. Ground controllers expect you to move as soon as they give you the pushback clearance. The old method (i.e., selection of the direction before the tug was connected) was cumbersome for flying online, as you wasted some more minutes until the push could commence. This often resulted in ground controllers asking why you are not moving. So, I would opt to stick with the new option.

[XxSlyserxX]

tell me if i'm wrong, but i think you misunderstood the request ... i think what he suggests is push pushes into place under the planes, but they ask us to  release the parking brake only after choosing the direction of the push back .. and I'm enough for this idea too, so +1

[Wolkenschreck]

But how should GSX then know when to ask for the direction?  
Normally, I only get the direction when I ask for the pushback clearance and not earlier. And this brings me back to my point made earlier: I am supposed to move as soon as I get the clearance. Of course we could estimate a certain direction but this will not help you when other traffic is blocking the apron and you get suddenly cleared in a direction opposite to your expectation.

The current way is simply perfect for flying online and the mechanism plays so nicely with the ATSU flow of the FSLabs Airbus. So I can frankly not see any benefit from reverting back to the old way. But this is just my opinion as a FSLabs user and online flyer.

[virtuali]

The current way is simply perfect for flying online and the mechanism plays so nicely with the ATSU flow of the FSLabs Airbus. So I can frankly not see any benefit from reverting back to the old way. But this is just my opinion as a FSLabs user and online flyer.

Exactly. This was suggested here, and we always listen to users suggestions.

[Terblanche]

The current way is simply perfect for flying online and the mechanism plays so nicely with the ATSU flow of the FSLabs Airbus. So I can frankly not see any benefit from reverting back to the old way. But this is just my opinion as a FSLabs user and online flyer.

Exactly. This was suggested here, and we always listen to users suggestions.

Ag asseblief ... VATSIM or no VATSIM, you ask for clearance any time when YOU are ready and know exactly what your intentions are regarding push back and Ground Control will not rush you into a stupo. The ground crew will not ask you to release the parking brake and THEN ask you what you want to do because they too would like to know what's your intentions before you release the parking brake ...

"We always listen to users (sic) suggestions" ........  your sense of humor is hysterical 

[virtuali]

"We always listen to users (sic) suggestions" ........  your sense of humor is hysterical  

Our 7 years history of GSX updates is there to prove this, regardless of your snarky comment. Other users that replied here already explained quite clearly why this was a good suggestion from users, and how it was correct for us to follow it. Also, it seems you are discussing two different things:

- The fact you are being asked for a direction later. THIS is clearly an advantage of this update.

- If the direction is asked *BEFORE* or *AFTER* releasing the parking brakes. We might change this, but it would be wrong to go back to the previous version, because this is clearly a big improvement.

[Terblanche]

We don't want to go back to a previous version. All I'm asking is: let ground crew ask our intentions (direction of push back) BEFORE we release the parking brake. That's all.

[Captain Kevin]

- If the direction is asked *BEFORE* or *AFTER* releasing the parking brakes. We might change this

Pretty sure that's what the original question was in the first place.

[virtuali]

Pretty sure that's what the original question was in the first place.

Saying "Could we please have the option back", to me looks as wanting to go back to the previous versions, when the direction was asked even before the tow truck started to move. We never had any version in which the direction was asked just before releasing the parking brakes we could go back to.

In any case, running the FSDT Live Update now, will change the request to be just before asking to release the parking brakes, but NOT before the truck moves, as it was in earlier versions.

[Terblanche]

- If the direction is asked *BEFORE* or *AFTER* releasing the parking brakes. We might change this

Pretty sure that's what the original question was in the first place.

Lost in Translation .........

Thank you Umberto for the option that's not a previous version but a better choice 

[J5flyer]

Hello,

In any case, running the FSDT Live Update now, will change the request to be just before asking to release the parking brakes, but NOT before the truck moves, as it was in earlier versions.

This is a good change, thanks for this.  It is a huge help to be able to have the tug connected and ready to go before requesting push & start from ATC, leaving the final selection of pushback position until clearance has been received but before having to release the parking brake.

I've loaded up the FS Labs A321 to test it quickly and unfortunately I encountered a problem while trying this new pushback method.  After selecting the pushback position, the ground crew begin pushing straight away, before asking you to 'release brakes', so they do it with the parking brake set.  If you release the parking brake anyway, you get the urgent message to release the parking brake immediately - so it is almost as if the detection for the parking brake is reversed temporarily while the pushback is taking place.  My steps to reproduce are below:

• With the aircraft loaded up on stand, on the GSX menu press 5 - Prepare for push-back and departure.
• With my selected options, I get asked "Do you want to request Pushback?"  Select 1 - Yes
• You get the normal ground crew comms "Captain we are ready for Pushback" & "Locking Gear"
• On the next menu when it appears, I selected 2 - QuickEdit Pushback, and proceeded to select my pushback location plus any required nodes, then press 'Y' to exit
• "Commencing push" is played, and pushback starts without the "release parking brake" communication

Hope that helps (providing it is not a problem just on my end).

[virtuali]

After selecting the pushback position, the ground crew begin pushing straight away, before asking you to 'release brakes', so they do it with the parking brake set.

Does it happen with a default airplane ?

[Wolkenschreck]

In any case, running the FSDT Live Update now, will change the request to be just before asking to release the parking brakes, but NOT before the truck moves, as it was in earlier versions.

Sorry, but I can not see any improvement here. Actually, this make things worse. Of course it is more realistic in the real world to advise the pushback crew before brakes are released. No doubt about this. But what realism is gained in the sim? There is no living ground crew but only the GSX window and there is no immersion increase just by operating a GUI window. So is there really any disadvantage when the direction is selected just after the brakes are released?

As I said before, I mainly use the FSLabs Airbus to fly online. Every interaction with GSX is done via the ATSU and the INT switch in the VC. I make the preflight flow and when boarding completes, I press the INT switch to request pushback. Then, the tug connects and then I ask the Vatsim controller for push and start. This can take some time in busy situations and I have no back mirror to look behind for situational awareness. Only after I get the clearance with direction I will release the brakes and this is the only moment where I ever see the GSX window. Direction selected and off we go...

Thus, selection of direction after brakes are released is more efficient for our simulator. Why?
-Firstly, flexibility. Pushback direction should be selected as late as possible.
-Secondly, immersion. I do not want to be bothered by the GSX window until really necessary. The old solution (after brakes released) gave me the maximum control over GSX and not vice versa (I have the brake release reminders suppressed btw).
-Thirdly, pilot behavior while flying online. Brakes should only be released when cleared by the controller to push. Selecting the direction afterwards implies that the pilot is aware of the cleared pushback direction. Reverting now to before release increases the chance that some pilots will pre-select a direction without any clearance. The actual clearance later issued by the controller could be contrary to the direction selected by the pilot. This will result in many wrong pushbacks and clogged aprons/taxiways. At least in my opinion, pushback efficiency and precision on Vatsim really improved after the direction had to be selected after releasing of the brakes.

Maybe this could be made an option (before or after) to please every party here? But just for point 3 alone (pilot behavior) I would highly opt for making direction selection after brakes released the default.