High-G Nose Vapor, Engine Exhaust Smoke and lighter HUD

[SpazSinbad]

Doum76, OK you can see how having direct links for your own videos is best. I'll have to look at them later. In the meantime here is a graphic found in a PDF available online (click past the warning about invalid security certificate - this happens a lot on US military pages) to get a 4.8Mb PDF about instrument flying and formation procedures for the T2C Buckeye (but will apply in a general sense for the Hornet) at:  https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/folder5/NFO_SNFO/P-821.PDF  (4.8Mb)

The position for any aircraft is about the same. Angle off of 45 degrees with the wingtips laterally separated by a few feet and being able to look at both upper and lower wing surfaces will be a good way to see how to fly a Hornet in formation. I'm still looking for specific Hornet details....

OK while I was typing this response Doum76 has added another long post about his formation flying. Sounds good but I need to see the videos OK? Generally you need to trust that your leader is flying correctly and all you need to do is fly excellent close formation as required (sometimes in clear sky loose formation is OK) especially in cloud. Keep your eye on the fuel and gear state otherwise fly close formation. Nothing else matters.

[Doum76]

The image below is not mine (from: http://users.telenet.be/aviator/PSF.htm) However it is a good illustration of some of the aspects of formation flying. However probably the aircraft is too close to leader and it should be further forward so that at least No.2 can see the Leader in case the leader uses hand signals. Also being further forward (but not too far - remember you will be about at a 45 degree angle from leader) means there is a better overall view of the leader. That is one way to fly good formation is to not concentrate on one point but on the overall picture/view of leader from the correct position. However at times your vision will be on one aspect temporarily to then quickly move back to the wider view (if you follow me). Fly echelon formation so that on the screen you can see all of the leader when in correct position with perhaps a bit either side for any movement. Formation requires concentration and practice - don't think it is easy if you are new to formation flying. I'm still looking for correct parameters for Hornet formation position....

Well my flying is not as good as this one or close, but stil ain't that bad, i flew a few times that close, but found it tough in the game so he kinda got a bit away.

[SpazSinbad]

The graphic can be misleading depending on the zoom in the game and it is not FSX. Keep in mind the simple graphic. Be able to see the leader at all times because as the Buckeye PDF shows there are a million hand signals he might throw at you. You must be able to see them. Also wingtips must not overlap as they probably are in the graphic. In one sense it looks like how close the Blue Angels will fly but that is another story altogether not relevant here. Still have to look at videos which will be a while because I'm concentrating on looking for Hornet formation info.

[Doum76]

The graphic can be misleading depending on the zoom in the game and it is not FSX. Keep in mind the simple graphic. Be able to see the leader at all times because as the Buckeye PDF shows there are a million hand signals he might throw at you. You must be able to see them. Also wingtips must not overlap as they probably are in the graphic. In one sense it looks like how close the Blue Angels will fly but that is another story altogether not relevant here. Still have to look at videos which will be a while because I'm concentrating on looking for Hornet formation info.

No problem, take your time, and sorry about the otehr long reply, i didn't know you were actualy on, so i was replying one message after the other.

[SpazSinbad]

Doum, No problem - just letting you know this is real time so I'm looking online for stuff. The Buckeye PDF is great for a lot of general 'how to fly USN style' information that will be relevant to all USN jets even today. I have a copy of the Super Hornet NATOPS which has at least three pages about 'inflight formation' (PDF URL on another thread on this forum which may not work anymore) reproduced here:

An EXTRA fourth graphic attached which was inadvertantly left out. Text describes the formation position exactly and how to turn with a wingman etc.

[SpazSinbad]

Same as Part 1 the next two Parts 2 & 3 take an age to download/view - anyway they are the correct ones so it will be awhile until I can view both. More later.

Later... A quick look at both videos Part 2 & 3 the same criticisms apply about formation flying (not sure I like the RED DAWN effect but whatever). If you can look not through the front HUD view but through a 10:30 view to leader your formation flying will be much easier. Yes another aspect of military flying that requires practice. Do that in clear weather rather than in cloud which is totally unrealistic for a new formation pilot.

The carrier landing was exciting. Remember from a video in the red haze it is not easy to see the indications so nothing really visible until the 'in the middle to in close' low then going high at ramp and an arrest. Fair enough for such a dramatic mission!   Any one would be glad to walk away from that lot.  

Doing difficult FSX missions can be NOT productive without having sufficient easier practice is less difficult environments. Always that will be up to you. Real world no one lands in formation on a runway without a lot of practice in clear weather to do that first then in bad weather for leader to break off for No.2 to land alone then to do it in cloud to formation landing (probably on a wet runway which is more dangerous). So to do a formation carrier approach at night in instrument conditions to have leader break away just before no.2 has to call the ball is probably the most difficult flight anyone can do. OK. ?  

Later this morning my time I'll look again at the three videos to see what else can be seen. Once again thanks for posting them and for being willing to suffer any criticisms that may come your way. Remember this is not easy flying. My remarks are to help you do a better job next time. Remember this is a flight sim so there are many limitations and other issues that are not seen in real world flying.

[SpazSinbad]

Doum76, watching your videos again I would recommend that in future you need only upload the last video no.3 from the time of getting to 1,200 feet to arrest, for the sake of landing/formation criticism but I understand you wanted to know about formation flying so that is a good example of some of the issues. Otherwise the time at high altitude in 'boring' formation is not necessary.   Believe me a wingman's life is never boring because if he is not flying perfect close formation he is in loose or trail formation keeping an excellent lookout all around the formation. I notice in the middle of Part 2 that you changed the view slightly but then went back to the forward view. Having that view change is essential to flying good close formation. Why? Because when flying close trail it is difficult to gauge the relative closing speed, or vice versa, to leader. In close, in proper formation position all relative changes are noticed quickly for a quick repsonse to get back to ideal. In cloud, in that loose trail formation you would quickly lose sight of your leader; and that would be a whole different emergency.

I notice probably once you get to 1,200 feet that you habitually fly much lower than the leader. This is dangerous at low level, especially below 500 feet. You need to be looking at upper and lower sides of the leader's wing so your aircraft is ONLY SLIGHTLY lower than the leaders. As noted in the NATOPS for a real landing you need to step up slightly for several reasons - one being to NOT HIT THE GROUND BEFORE YOUR LEADER.

Also I note that when close or just after calling the ball you stop flying formation and I guess you are flying your own approach BEFORE YOUR LEADER BREAKS AWAY. This is also dangerous. Remember you are no.2 committed to flying close formation until your leader breaks away. Until then you are not flying your own approach. Otherwise you will have two aircraft trying to occupy the same piece of sky independently (flying an accurate carrier approach).

I know of an A4G fatal accident where no.2 failed to remember this idea on a formation bombing run when he stopped keeping leader in view to concentrate on his own sight picture for bombing - only to hit his leader and die because they are both trying to be in the same airspace - it is up to NO.2 to keep a lookout (in a different situation - not in the carrier approach) and NEVER HIT THE LEADER. OK.

No.2 has a simple life. He flies close formation as required and keeps a good lookout otherwise. And he keeps a good eye on fuel state and landing gear as required. Otherwise flying close formation becomes second nature and no big deal (except in this FSX scenario which would be the most difficult in the real world).

[SpazSinbad]

From the Super Hornet NATOPS for added information about the scenario of the mission above:

"8.6 SECTION CCA (Carrier Controlled Approach)
A section CCA may be necessary when a failure occurs which affects navigation aids, communica-
tions equipment, or other aircraft systems.

Normally, the aircraft experiencing the difficulty flies the parade position on the starboard side
during the approach. When the meatball is sighted, but no lower than 300 feet AGL, the section leader
breaks away from the wingman in a climbing left turn. The section leader should climb to 1,200 feet
AGL, or below an overcast, in the bolter configuration, and position himself at the wingman’s 11:00
o’clock position. If the wingman bolters or waves-off, he should rendezvous in the bolter configuration
on the section leader. If a wave-off is required prior to flight break-up, the flight leader executes a
climbing right turn to 1,200 feet AGL and follows the directions of CATCC. Necessary lighting signals
between aircraft are contained in Chapter 26.

NOTE
A section penetration should not be made to the ship with less than
non-precision minimums."

[Doum76]

Doum76, watching your videos again....

Thanks again for all your tips and advice,r eally appreciated, lots of info for me stuff to digest, but absolutly nice.
I did practice a bit yesterday Formation, and the night before, only way i found to practice is with FSRecoder, recording a flight, then play as traffic, couldn't customize the IMC mission to make it Day light, and clear skies weather, when i save the game, when i load it afterwards, it buggs, the Leads appear, then flu straight ahead, like he's supersonic, and goes 3 nm away in a flash. Anyways, i rather practice with straight flying first. before folowing in deceleration and altitude changes.

I did massive improvement, the only problem in my way to master it sort of, is crap Lag i get when flying with a second aicraft, doesn't do it in Missions,  but with play as Traffic, the otehr aircraft leaps a lot of times, forward and backwars, about 4-5 feet in a sec, completly makes it tougher for perfect formation with flash adjusement like that on speed, and since i think my former flight i wasn't truely wing leveled, so when it leaps liek that it  also makes it either comes closer or ferther away, which also needs to reajust bank, but still, lot better, jsut also having a bit of problem to align the winf tip witht he lead's head box, the flat nozle alignement ain't much of a problem, just the proximity of the lead, specialy because of the leaping lag, gotta make some search on google for forums that might has stuff on that.

I'll make a few min video later on, to show improvement and that annoying lag, at least i made FreeTrack not laggy in FSX anymore by making it's processing over normal in the Task Manager, makes formation fly more fun and easy by only moving the head to follow the lead, lol, specialy when leaping 4-5 feet back with the lag. I say 4-5 feet, but much more than that, usualy it leaps almost the distance from the tip of the Radar Casing, to about a foot inside the canopy.

[SpazSinbad]

Doum76, I do not have the gear that you have but certainly practice your formation flying in the best sim environment you have, even if it is on the mission in cloud. Just stay with the leader - nothing else matters. Having the lags and leapings does not sound good for proper formation practice. You need to be able to see high frame rates so that you notice any changes early so that your reaction to them is appropriate. If I had the 'leapings' you describe I would be LEAPING out of the aircraft. 

[Doum76]

Well there it is, attached, a few snapshots for the Engine Exhaust Smoke i've made, the Nose High-G Vapor corrected, working based on the SuperHornet mentionned in a few post here, and also, i know Virtuali made one already, but when i came to down it last night, it wasn't available anymore, a new Cube, which servers as reflection inside the Virtual Cockpit, i've made it cloudy, nice bright sky, cloudy and making tougher to see the edges of the cube.

Hope you'll like it. Attached are also the .zip files with the files and intructions for insttaling.