Author Topic: Carrier landing sucessful!  (Read 13824 times)

Doum76

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Re: Carrier landing sucessful!
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2009, 03:53:57 pm »
Perhaps a 'rule of thumb' will help with controlling the Hornet. "You control the aircraft, the aircraft does not control you." Especially on approach to the carrier you must be in total control, anticipating what is required to stay on an OK approach. Nothing else will do. Similarly in flight the trim must be as close as possible to the conditions being flown; so that there are minimal forces required to stay in any steady state of flight.

Only formation teams like the Blue Angels are allowed to fly 'out of trim' for the special circumstances they fly under. Usually this means they fly with a lot of nose down trim requiring them to 'pull towards' i.e. a positive pull UP to stay in formation - so they fly smoother that way.

A carrier pilot may fly an approach with a notch (a very small amount of nose down trim for similar reasons - for smoothness) but I reckon that is not required - because a carrier approach is never smooth. :-) It is never smooth because it must be accurate all the way, every deviation from ideal must be corrected ASAP.

Nice, thanks for the info, always nice to know some stuff about the actual real life procedure, i'm a kinda curious person that loves to learn new stuff.  ;D I alway been amaze by fighter pilot, making flying look so gracious, easy and precise.

I've been  doing carrier landing not bad at all, just so far the Carrier Practice and IMC mission from Acc. Pack are tough to actual understand how stuff works good with the important weather condition, i do prety well out of Practice 5 passes mission, but that one, i aboslutely look like a retard, the plane is really looking like a leave in the wind, i feel like dancing a tango with it  ;D and when getting on the ramp, i'm so missplaced on the glideslope or lineup, that makes the old movie «Gone with the wind» have a different sequel.  ;)


Besides that i end up setting Trim good, so i mostly only have to play with throttle to adjust RoD or RoA, and get the  perfect Donut with minimum work. But as i say in the IMC mission not easy to folow a plane while adjusting trim for either descend or lvl fly. And since it was my first try as formation flying, was curious about how the real thing was done.

SpazSinbad

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Re: Carrier landing sucessful!
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2009, 12:07:03 am »
Doum76, a fast jet pilot practices formation all the time as part of regular operations (two aircraft formation - leader and wingman) so that formation flying is not special. However any fast jet pilot is working 'like a one-armed wallpaper hanger' ALL THE TIME. And if he is not working hard then something is wrong. This is the way of it. Especially on a carrier approach, there is nothing smooth or graceful about it from the inside. What it looks like from the outside is only relevant to the LSO. BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO CRASH THEN LOOK GOOD (old fighter pilot motto).  ;D

Seriously, using the trim button to trim appropriately is important, and part of flying well. Practice will get you to trim all the time. However DO NOT FLY with the trim button. Take out flying forces with the trim though - as required - after using the controls. With practice it becomes second nature. Having a few seconds downwind, dirty at Optimum Angle of Attack, wings level at circuit level altitude, so that trim is accurate in that condition, is important.
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Doum76

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Re: Carrier landing sucessful!
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2009, 05:38:10 am »
Doum76, a fast jet pilot practices formation all the time as part of regular operations (two aircraft formation - leader and wingman) so that formation flying is not special. However any fast jet pilot is working 'like a one-armed wallpaper hanger' ALL THE TIME. And if he is not working hard then something is wrong. This is the way of it. Especially on a carrier approach, there is nothing smooth or graceful about it from the inside. What it looks like from the outside is only relevant to the LSO. BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO CRASH THEN LOOK GOOD (old fighter pilot motto).  ;D

Well of course is nothing special at first for formation flying since they come in pairs :) but still, that is a not so easy task to accomplish at first, and what does make it graceful for me, is the fact of making something for those doing it, tough to work for it, look so simple to other peoples eyes looking at it, that seems as easy as ABC :) And don't worry, in the Sim i follow the motto, when i crash, i do it with both hands-up like in a roller coaster :P

Seriously, using the trim button to trim appropriately is important, and part of flying well. Practice will get you to trim all the time. However DO NOT FLY with the trim button. Take out flying forces with the trim though - as required - after using the controls. With practice it becomes second nature. Having a few seconds downwind, dirty at Optimum Angle of Attack, wings level at circuit level altitude, so that trim is accurate in that condition, is important.

Funny that you wrote that, i just came on the forum, been flying a bit earlier today before making my awesome lasagna :) and what i did in todays Sim world, was first, fixing up stuff with my joystick, was kinda stiff, so was tough to make tiny adjustement, the springs i guess where still strong from brand new, so to made small adjustement ended up by making a resistance and when the stick passes that little zone, ended up with a sudden movement making precision movement like in final, or formation, being more drastic, so being trying out deadzones for the spot it made unpleasant movement, after came up with the idea maybe spring was too new, not used much, so i jsut made some movement in all direction a few minutes, now it'sa bit better less stiff, makes a difference! Was a bit of the reason i had problem flying, keeping nice angle on turns, formation etc...

After that with this fixed, i only did some Triming practice, nothing much else, practicing triming for a certain speed i.e. 200 knots with wing level, and flying for a bit leveled with only throttle adjusement to stay on altitude, then going for a different speed, gradualy incrasing throttle to aim 250 knots while at the same time gradualy trimming down trying as much as possible to do it with affecting too much altitude until wing leveled, then same, straight flying to practice staying on a precise RoD or RoA or leveled, while using as a ref., the speed of the path indicator moving up or down and the RoD and RoA moving to control with the throttle adjusement. Practice that flying Dirty also with gears, flaps and hook up also, then droping in Dirty, same gradualy to get an Optimum Sweet Orange Donut, flying wing level with the Donut and just minor adjustements with throttle, then down to a 600-700 RoD and keep it steady. Told myself if i practice that a lot, and kinda master it, it will become automatic to do, and make flying, landing way much easier. I even made some low lvl flying at 500 knots, 600 ft just a bit over threes, crossing ridges, while turning upside down to get down the other side of the ridge etc... Adjusting trim for speed change, i.e. when going from 400 knots for flying for a while then when droepd to 600 ft, 500 knots, trimed back for that speed.

I even tried an High Alpha, i am just not too sure about the exact speed and AoA to do it, but i made it 120 knots and about an AoA of 15 degree, with low fuel also extrem to practice, about 95 knots, AoA of 24 degree.

Well enough for now, will already take you for a while to read this novel. :) And thanks agian for the comments, avice and stuff.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 05:46:09 am by Doum76 »

SpazSinbad

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Re: Carrier landing sucessful!
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2009, 08:21:01 am »
Doum76, my comments are about flying in general, how they apply to FSX is too complicated for any individual to understand about another individual (via interent) because; as you point out, a lot depends on the sim equipment in use. I have tried many 'flightsticks'; but stick with my old Microsoft Sidewinder with a really sloppy feel to it and a ridiculously sensitive 'twist for rudder' implementation - I'm used to how it works now. In no way would anyone use such a 'monster control column' in a real aircraft of any description. :-)

It is worthwhile to practice at circuit height - dirty - trimmed so that - as you are saying - the Rate of Descent is controlled by the power etc. Always good to do because it is a different way to fly, compared to ordinary 'Air Force' circuits on land.  ;D However it is always good to practice ashore by using carrier technique with whatever landing aids available.
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