Concorde Refueling question (not previously asked!)

[crauds]

Hi Umberto!

    I know we have discussed the ConcordeX situation in past posts and you have stated that until FSL provides you with more pertinent information, GSX will not be able to adequately simulate the fueling procedure.  I understand that.  What I have been puzzled over is why GSX2 now sends a large tanker for the initial load and then sends only small trucks for subsequent loads.  Then it dawned on me today that the standard of 6.7 lbs/gal is used to determine the capacity on all my other aircraft but the Concorde only uses Kilograms.  Today 84000 Kg needed to be added to the tanks for my required load.  That would require 3 large tankers (27,640 gal) but if GSX were interpreting the Concorde capacity as pounds rather that Kilograms then it is possible it is computing that the fillup will only require 12,537 gal which would equate to the first truck being a heavy 10,000 gal tanker and the followup truck being a 3000 gal truck.  Now of course GSX isn't able to compute when the fuel load actually is completed so it just keeps sending small trucks until I reset COUATL.  But I am wanting it to send only large tankers.  I can live with maually resseting COUATL to end the sequence.  I have searched through the GSX, addons, and virtuali directories but can find no place to select pounds or kilograms.  It seems strange that GSX would not have defaulted to Kilograms rather than pounds but the manual seems only to mention pounds.

   Point being, is it possible to somehow switch the settings to KG when I use the Concorde so that the GSX will determine the correct capacity and thus send only large tankers?    The capacity variable that is provided by FSL is in Kg but GSX would have no way of knowing that so it may (just a theory of course) be interpreting it as pounds and thus a much smaller capacity which results in the smaller trucks (manual explains that the size of the truck is determined by the capacity of the aircraft.)

   Maybe I am off base here, but I thought I would run that by you to get your feedback.  Thank you for the great program.

Craig

[crauds]

BUMP.

[crauds]

Why is this being ignored?

[Ray Proudfoot]

Craig,

You cannot use GSX to refuel Concorde. There are 13 fuel tanks and the correct proportion of fuel has to be loaded into each tank. GSX cannot possibly know that.

You should be using Concorde Performance System- X (CPS-X) for planning your Concorde flights and the files output by that program will load the correct amount of fuel into each tank.

CPS-X is a free download available in AvSim Library. This is all assuming you are using FS Labs Concorde which seems probable.

[crauds]

Hi Ray!

   Didn't know you monitored this forum.

    Well aware of CPX.  Worked on it with Pierre in the early stages.  I use it all the time for all my aircraft.  GSX simulates fuel loading by sending the trucks.  I use CPX from the menu to actually input the fuel.  Many aircraft are not set up for progressive fueling including some PMDG models but GSX sends the trucks and times the fictitious fuel loading. With the Concorde, Umberto does not have access to the variable that controls the quantities, so GSX has no way of knowing when to stop sending trucks.  My issue has nothing to do with that.  It is simply a request to send large tankers instead of small trucks.  Earlier versions of GSX were able to do that.  When the required quantity loading has been simulated (i watch the green bar and keep track of number of trucks required) I then restart Couatl to end the process.  Unrealistic of course but functional and still allows me to simulate time required to refuel as part of my preflight prep. 

Craig

[Ray Proudfoot]

Hi Craig, as a customer I often visit this forum. So you’re asking for a virtual reality refuel? It would be nice for those who want it but I suspect you’re very much in the minority.

The workload to prepare Concorde for a flight is considerable. I can’t see Umberto providing tankers unless it’s a quick fix which I doubt. I think you’ll just have to accept it isn’t going to happen.

[crauds]

Hi Ray!

   GSX already  provides fuel trucks when fueling is requested.  My only request is that they be the large trucks instead of the small ones.  GSX role in preparing ConcordeX is minimal.  A change in size of trucks should be a simple fix.  According to the manual the size dispensed is dependent on the fuel capacity of the aircraft.  That just needs to be reset to read a larger capacity.  It is not a variable but a constant that needs to be input to the aircraft configuration.  Unfortunately the current version of GSX2 does not provide for user input to make this change.  Remember a while back, GSX DID send only large tankers to the Concorde.  If it worked before, it can work again.  This is not rocket science here, but it needs to be implemented on the GSX side unless Umberto can provide instructions for user to make the adjustments.

Craig

[virtuali]

Remember a while back, GSX DID send only large tankers to the Concorde.  If it worked before, it can work again. 

The kind of refueler truck was always decided by the standard variable that holds the total fuel capacity of the airplane. Nothing has changed for this condition.

What has changed in "recent" ( not really, it's like this since a couple of years ) versions is that. in addition to the total fuel capacity, there's an additional condition for the large tankers to appear, which is the height of the refueling point under the wing. The larger tanker won't be used if the refueling point is too low. Less than 3.40 meters from ground, as it is now.

So, maybe you'll have to check if the refuel point on the Concorde is configured to be at least 3.4 mt. from ground, which explains why the larger truck is not used.

In any case, we are still not done with the refueler function in GSX. A fuel hydrant is still missing, and we are working exactly on that, right now. This should be able to service more airplanes kinds, not just those with a wing high enough for the truck to end up underneath.

[crauds]

Thanks, Umberto.

The fueling point height meets the requirement, but my thinking is that for some reason the total fuel capacity variable is not able to be accessed by GSX so it assumes it is a small plane(?)  But on the recent GSX updates, it DOES send the large tanker truck on the initial call but only follows up with small trucks.  I can live without GSX automatically knowing when the fill has completed.  I manually monitor the load and when it has simulated enough fuel loaded, I just restart COUATL at that point, but it takes way too long to have to wait for multiple small trucks.  A typical 3200nm trip requires around 200,000 lbs (29,850+ gals)!  If there is no way you can set ConcordeX to only take large tankers then I must wait for the upcoming "hydrant" fueling option.  That will be more realistic in most cases anyway.

Craig

[virtuali]

for some reason the total fuel capacity variable is not able to be accessed by GSX so it assumes it is a small plane(?) 

That's possible but, in this case, the only possible reason is that variable is not set to the correct value, which is possible, since the Concorde has a custom fuel system, since the default one cannot be simulated with the standard fuel system.

But on the recent GSX updates, it DOES send the large tanker truck on the initial call but only follows up with small trucks.

That seems to indicate the variable that stores the total capacity somehow changed after the 2nd trip. Can't you just disable the "Multiple Trips" option, so a single truck will always be used, and just pretend it's an Hydrant ?